JLTRT tie bars and Heljan wheels

[Dmudriver]

Hi all

 

I'm building some C&L points and have boought some JLTRT tie bars. Looking at how they fit into the web of the rail and the shoulder that protrudes from them, I wonder whether Heljan wheels might bounce on them. Slaters wheels are OK, but a quick look at some Heljans (on a Class 33) makes me wonder.

 

Has anyone had any experience of this, please?

 

I've used narrow copperclad for the first point I built, but think narrower tie bars will look a bit better.

 

Thanks.

 

Rod

[Softvark]

Hi Rod

 

I've used them without any problems that I can recall. I have more issues with C&L plastic fishplates which the early Heljan wheels bounce along. I've had to file the bolts down to get smooth running.

 

I think the JLTRT tie bars are a big improvement over copperclad.

 

Julian

[David Siddall]

It wasn't tie bars I had problems with in relation to the smooth passage of Heljan wheels Rod it was check-rail to crossing 'vee' clearances! My experiences with a Hymek and others' advice on that topic is catalogued on my thread starting here.

 

Whilst there was no mention of Class 33s in that conversation it was however suggested that Heljan's Hymek and Class 47 wheelsets are the main culprits being both slightly adrift in the back-to-back department and also a bit on the chunky side - the consensus was however that more recent Heljan locos feature superior wheel standards.

 

Adopting the approach of living with whatever Heljan provide and tweaking turnout clearances slightly to accommodate the worst offenders if you hit a snag (as I did) or... getting your Heljan wheels turned to a more appropriate and consistent profile will I'd suggest be very much down to your personal approach to modelling and available resources. Fortunately for me, having used C&L components, I found that I could quickly and easily make minor adjustments to my turnouts without compromising their appearance :-)

 

All the best... David

 

PS: I certainly considered JLRT's tie-bars but eventually settled on a combination of Ambis' version and copper-clad strips based on advice from others who had deployed the method with great success (both visually and from an operational point of view IMO)!

[Dmudriver]

Hi Julian and David.

 

Thanks for your replies. I went with JLTRT's but didn't have much luck with them: out of 5 tie bars I constructed, only 1 has been of any use. That has the 2 pieces held together with double sided tape and a little superglue run along the top and bottom edges. I tried the same thing with 3 of the others, but they wouldn't stay stuck when I was soldering them to the switch blades. I did get one tie bar perfect - done with superglue: unfortunately superglue is not an insulator so that one was useless, too!!

 

I'm going back to the narrow copperclad. I'm thinking that, as I have a reasonably large layout, they will not particularly stand out. I feel that if I had a small scenic one, they would be more obvious. My concentration is on the operation of a terminus station, so I'm hoping the tie bars will be pretty well overlooked. I know everyone won't agree with that approach, but we all have interests in different aspects of the hobby.

 

Thanks for the warnings about Heljan wheels, gentlemen. I've already come across the problem - it's mentioned in my thread a few months ago. I had the wheels on my 2 37s turned and they are fine now. (They weren't running on 32mm fine scale pointwork, but on not-very-well-built 31.5mm pointwork. I've abandoned 31.5mm for now!) Fortunately I don't have a Hymek and my 47 made way for a 33!

 

Thanks for the link to your thread, David. I followed it earlier, when you were starting your pointwork but somehow I lost contact with it: I'll catch up ina day or two.

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

I'm going back to the narrow copperclad. I'm thinking that, as I have a reasonably large layout, they will not particularly stand out. I feel that if I had a small scenic one, they would be more obvious. My concentration is on the operation of a terminus station, so I'm hoping the tie bars will be pretty well overlooked. I know everyone won't agree with that approach, but we all have interests in different aspects of the hobby.

 

These photos were sufficient to convince me that the combination of one Ambis bar and a copper-clad strip were the way to go Rod...

 

... and this one and this one provided more than sufficient evidence for me that the outcome would both look good and work well - all courtesy of fellow member 'Dikitriki who provided invaluable assistance when I was pondering the same 'tie-bar' quandary whilst attempting my first turnout :-)

 

David

[Dmudriver]

Hi David.

 

Now you've got me thinking!! I've been in touch with dikitriki before and it was his pointwork that persuaded me to go for 31.5mm gauge track as he has done. I had some points built for me but they have, unfortunately, turned out to be not very good. Running through them is pretty cr*p and, even though I've done a lot of fettling, they're still not right. This is why I am now building my own, to 32mm gauge - as I could get the common crossings already made up. I've found the copper clad tie bar solution pretty easy, but I'll have another go with the JLTRTs before I go any further: what I do find frustrating with them is the bland comment "adjust position to suit gauge"! I'm doing it by eye, which I'm sure is not an ideal way, but I've no other experience to draw on!!

 

I do enjoy this hobby - always another challenge and something else to learn - even at my age!!

 

Rod

[Softvark]

Hi Rod

 

The secret with the JLTRT tie bars is to use epoxy (araldite) rather than super glue. My pointwork is 31.5mm and the way I set the distance was simply to use a gauge (supplied by Debs on this forum) between the stock rail and the frog of a point and then accurately measure the distance between the frog rails.I could then epoxy together the two parts of the tie bar (just a light even covering of epoxy) then clamp them together with a clothes peg and ensure they were parallel and the correct distance apart.

 

Once set firm I could solder them in place with no problems with them coming apart. Epoxy seems to be a good insulator.

 

They aren't as detailed as the Ambis but definitely better than copperclad.

 

Julian

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod

 

The secret with the JLTRT tie bars is to use epoxy (araldite) rather than super glue. My pointwork is 31.5mm and the way I set the distance was simply to use a gauge (supplied by Debs on this forum) between the stock rail and the frog of a point and then accurately measure the distance between the frog rails.I could then epoxy together the two parts of the tie bar (just a light even covering of epoxy) then clamp them together with a clothes peg and ensure they were parallel and the correct distance apart.

 

Once set firm I could solder them in place with no problems with them coming apart. Epoxy seems to be a good insulator.

 

They aren't as detailed as the Ambis but definitely better than copperclad.

 

Julian

 

Hi Julian.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I've tried (today) some super strength double sided tape but it's no good for detailed work (it sticks to the craft knife, for a start!!) and I was thinking that maybe epoxy was the way to go. You've confimed that now. Thank you. I'll make up a little jig so that I get them all the same width and then fit them to this point and to point 1 which has the copper clads on (see my layout thread). It'll be a day or two as Christmas preparations are getting in the way!!

 

Thanks to both you and David for your help. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

I'm a big fan of C&L ready-made crossing vees too... look forward to hearing that you've resolved your tie-bar conundrum.

 

David

[Dmudriver]

Hi Julian and David.

 

A progress report! I've done the JLTRT tie bars and fixed them to the 2 points I have built so far. I tried gluing the 2 parts of the bar together with epoxy, and maybe I put it on too thin, but it didn't insulate!! Fortunately I got the 2 parts apart before the epoxy had set really hard, so what I did then was to sandwich a piece of thin plasticard strip between the 2 parts, glued with epoxy. That worked!! A photo of the 2 bars is here:

 

 

I did 4 altogether and have added 2 to the point I made earlier A photo of the 2 points I have built so far is here:

 

 

I must admit they do look better with these than with copper clad strips.

 

I've 2 more left hand points to build and then a single slip. The slip will be a challenge, particularly as C&L have not done instructions for it, so I'll have to work out the order for myself. I have got instructions for a diamond crossing, however, so they will help. BUT, I'll get these next 2 points done first. However, that's after finishing my Christmas cards and getting a few presents for the family.

 

Further progress will be on my layout thread (link below). Thanks for your help and advice and (gently) persuading me to go down this route.

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

Nice work Rod... persistence rewarded :-)

 

David

[3 link]

Hi Rod,

 

When you say no instructions for the single slip do you mean no template or just where do you start ?

 

ATB, Martyn.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod,

 

When you say no instructions for the single slip do you mean no template or just where do you start ?

 

ATB, Martyn.

 

Hi Martyn.

 

I've got the template, just no instructions regarding the sequence. I'd start with the angled stock rails, then the common crossings, but after that I'd be struggling. I've not looked very closely as I've still 2 points to build but one thing I have wondered about is the switch blades: 3 sections or 2 - if the latter, where to join them?

 

If you could suggest a sequence, or suggest where I could look for one, I'd be very grateful. Thanks.

 

Rod

[3 link]

Hi Rod,

 

I have built many turnouts including tandems but no slips so far, but I do not think there is a set way of building one. Personally I would start with the curved stock rail and then put in place the vee and wing rails to set the gauge. After that I would work across the template from the curved stock rail, what might be helpful now is that C& L have brought out Exactoscale so there will be more choice when it comes to the correct railchairs.

 

With reference to the switch blades I will dig out my permanent way bible and get back to you on that.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[3 link]

Hi Rod,

 

The p/way bible I use is based on GWR practices but most companies adopted similar designs, and for their slips the blades are in three sections. If you were building a 1 in 6 single slip and you counted from the centre sleeper, it is between the fourth and fifth sleeper out that the join between blade and lead closure rail is, although I would think this answer is not set in stone. Hope this is of some help,

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod,

 

The p/way bible I use is based on GWR practices but most companies adopted similar designs, and for their slips the blades are in three sections. If you were building a 1 in 6 single slip and you counted from the centre sleeper, it is between the fourth and fifth sleeper out that the join between blade and lead closure rail is, although I would think this answer is not set in stone. Hope this is of some help,

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

 

Thanks, Martyn. Looking at the template, there are "cosmetic" fishplates shown in roughly the positions you mention. I'll look at it in a bit more detail when I've finished the next 2 points: thanks for your help so far. I might be asking for more in a few weeks!!

 

Rod