Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[Graham R]

I'm interested that balsa is used as trackbase on Tucking Mill. We used it on the Forth and Clyde area group's "Sauchenford" and regretted it, as any accidental heavy pressure can squash the balsa and destroy the level surface, causing infuriating short patches of poor running. Maybe we are just cack-handed, but we would steer clear of balsa next time.

[queensquare]

I'm interested that balsa is used as trackbase on Tucking Mill. We used it on the Forth and Clyde area group's "Sauchenford" and regretted it, as any accidental heavy pressure can squash the balsa and destroy the level surface, causing infuriating short patches of poor running. Maybe we are just cack-handed, but we would steer clear of balsa next time.

I'm not entirely sure what you have done here. If you had applied enough pressure to squash the balsa you would have presumably done some damage to the track which would cause problems whatever the underlay was. If you did the damage before laying the track surely you would have noticed at the time or did you simply lay track over an undulating surface.

 

Jerry

[Graham R]

What you say sounds logical Jerry. I wasn't a group member when the track was laid, but I doubt if it was done carelessly. One way or another it seems to have become slightly dished and we have convinced ourselves the balsa was part of the problem. Perhaps we are doing it an injustice, or perhaps we used a softer grade of balsa than was wise. Or perhaps I am simply wittering ... so I'll stop now :-)

[Caley Jim]

What you say sounds logical Jerry. I wasn't a group member when the track was laid, but I doubt if it was done carelessly. One way or another it seems to have become slightly dished and we have convinced ourselves the balsa was part of the problem. Perhaps we are doing it an injustice, or perhaps we used a softer grade of balsa than was wise. Or perhaps I am simply wittering ... so I'll stop now :-)

No, Graham, you're not wittering.  The problem was that the balsa we used was quite thick (9mm if memory serves).  This was the late Colin Brady's idea as he had used it on his Ballachulish layout.  Quite what the thinking was I don't know.  I think he suggested it, so the rest of us went along with it, but, as you say, we would not use that again.   The problem is that at that thickness it doesn't take much pressure to compress it irrevocably.  Thinner stuff would be much more resistant.  For Kirkallanmuir I used 1mm card under the main running lines, purely to 'lift' them slightly above the loops and sidings, which are laid straight on the baseboards.  Personally, I don't see the need for sound deadening in our scale as the locos and vehicles don't have the mass of the larger scales.

 

Jim

[queensquare]

No, Graham, you're not wittering.  The problem was that the balsa we used was quite thick (9mm if memory serves).  This was the late Colin Brady's idea as he had used it on his Ballachulish layout.  Quite what the thinking was I don't know.  I think he suggested it, so the rest of us went along with it, but, as you say, we would not use that again.   The problem is that at that thickness it doesn't take much pressure to compress it irrevocably.  Thinner stuff would be much more resistant.  For Kirkallanmuir I used 1mm card under the main running lines, purely to 'lift' them slightly above the loops and sidings, which are laid straight on the baseboards.  Personally, I don't see the need for sound deadening in our scale as the locos and vehicles don't have the mass of the larger scales.

 

Jim

That makes sense Jim. On Tucking Mill I wanted the sidings to be at a slightly lower level than the main loop so used 1/16 inch balsa under them. I would agree about sound deadening in our scale and am not convinced that any underlay would have much impact. If you really want to deaden sound then fill the great cavity under the baseboard with something - expanded foam polystyrene or similar - in order to prevent it acting like a sound box, amplifying any noise.

 

Jerry

[2mmMark]

When I built Clive Road Sidings, I used a 6mm ply baseboard surface on which was laid 9mm Sundeala. The layout used the thin plastic moulded sleepers into which rail simply drops and at intervals, 18mm long pins were pushed into the Sundeala and through the ply. The rail was soldered onto the pins and then the power feeds were soldered onto the pins protuding through underneath.

 

The combination of ply & sundeala gives a strong and stable 15mm thick base. The layout must be now approaching 20 years old and is still working reliably, so I believe.

 

Thin (10 thou) sleepers made ballasting very simple. I still have a stock of these mouldings and would have no problem using them again. I've got some thin PCB which makes matching point sleepers. The Association used to supply a version of the strip rail in phosphor-bronze. I wouldn't mind getting hold of some if anyone has any they are not going to use.

 

Mark

Edited March 19, 2017 by 2mmMark

[Donw]

No, Graham, you're not wittering.  The problem was that the balsa we used was quite thick (9mm if memory serves).  This was the late Colin Brady's idea as he had used it on his Ballachulish layout.  Quite what the thinking was I don't know.  I think he suggested it, so the rest of us went along with it, but, as you say, we would not use that again.   The problem is that at that thickness it doesn't take much pressure to compress it irrevocably.  Thinner stuff would be much more resistant.  For Kirkallanmuir I used 1mm card under the main running lines, purely to 'lift' them slightly above the loops and sidings, which are laid straight on the baseboards.  Personally, I don't see the need for sound deadening in our scale as the locos and vehicles don't have the mass of the larger scales.

 

Jim

 

I quite agree about the sound deadening but I do find it better to raise the track a little apart from yards where the track can be buried up to the top of the sleepers track is normally raised above the surrounding ground. Your idea of 1mm card is fine. I thought thin balsa would do better  a bit thicker than card and easier to cut than ply. It seems to be ok during construction and I don't expect it to be damaged once the track is laid.  You could try 1/16th or 2mm ply if you want a bit more depth. If you want greater depth and have any polystyrene packaging (flat sheets) you can lay that with thin ply on the top under the track.

Don

[2mm Andy]

I quite agree about the sound deadening but I do find it better to raise the track a little apart from yards where the track can be buried up to the top of the sleepers track is normally raised above the surrounding ground. Your idea of 1mm card is fine. I thought thin balsa would do better  a bit thicker than card and easier to cut than ply. It seems to be ok during construction and I don't expect it to be damaged once the track is laid.  You could try 1/16th or 2mm ply if you want a bit more depth. If you want greater depth and have any polystyrene packaging (flat sheets) you can lay that with thin ply on the top under the track.

Don

 

I'd be wary of using anything that could possibly swell when soaked with diluted PVA during ballasting. I laid some 2FS track on a baseboard using some thin (1/16" basswood) as a track base and the blasted stuff started to curl up a few days after I'd glued the track down. I think in future I'd use thin birch plywood as it should be more stable.

 

Andy

[Donw]

I'd be wary of using anything that could possibly swell when soaked with diluted PVA during ballasting. I laid some 2FS track on a baseboard using some thin (1/16" basswood) as a track base and the blasted stuff started to curl up a few days after I'd glued the track down. I think in future I'd use thin birch plywood as it should be more stable.

 

Andy

I use 6mm ply usually for the baseboard surface.  I would be surprised if the 1/16 material would curl up once stuck firmly to the ply. Just wondering if it hadn't been stuck down firmly to the baseboard or whether the basewood curled because the water soaked into the top and couldn't dry out as the pva had sealed it it. If you stick the easitrac down onto the basswood that could seal it before ballasting. If using deep sleepers I usually sprinkle a little ballast on when lying the track as it seems to give a better hold to the ballast so cover all the track base with adhesive (I had lumps fall out from an 0 gauge layout on the board that had been upside down in transit to a show before trying this).

Don

[2mmMark]

I'd be wary of using anything that could possibly swell when soaked with diluted PVA during ballasting. I laid some 2FS track on a baseboard using some thin (1/16" basswood) as a track base and the blasted stuff started to curl up a few days after I'd glued the track down. I think in future I'd use thin birch plywood as it should be more stable.

 

Andy

 

Sealing with a coat of undiluted Unibond will solve that. It certainly seals up Sundeala board very well.

[Caley Jim]

I'd be wary of using anything that could possibly swell when soaked with diluted PVA during ballasting. I laid some 2FS track on a baseboard using some thin (1/16" basswood) as a track base and the blasted stuff started to curl up a few days after I'd glued the track down. I think in future I'd use thin birch plywood as it should be more stable.

 

Andy

I sealed the card (the backing of MRJ envelopes) with slightly dilute PVA before glueing down the Templot print-out and then laying the track. I had no problem when ballasting.

 

Jim

[garethashenden]

Made some progress with the GNR brake van. It's now painted and lettered. I also made a box to keep it safe on it's upcoming flight.

 

1

 

And with the M7.

 

I'm not thrilled with the lettering. The paint I used was far thinner than I expected...

Hopefully it will get to see some action at Ally Pally this weekend.

[2mm Andy]

I use 6mm ply usually for the baseboard surface.  I would be surprised if the 1/16 material would curl up once stuck firmly to the ply. Just wondering if it hadn't been stuck down firmly to the baseboard or whether the basewood curled because the water soaked into the top and couldn't dry out as the pva had sealed it it. If you stick the easitrac down onto the basswood that could seal it before ballasting. If using deep sleepers I usually sprinkle a little ballast on when lying the track as it seems to give a better hold to the ballast so cover all the track base with adhesive (I had lumps fall out from an 0 gauge layout on the board that had been upside down in transit to a show before trying this).

Don

 

If I recall correctly, I weighted the basswood down well (using some old cast iron drawing weights from work) while the pva glue used to secure it to the plywood cured. I can't remember now whether I sealed the basswood before gluing the track down, but the track was glued down with Easitrac glue and it was a few days later that I noticed the curling. The track was never ballasted, although I did manage to straighten the basswood and glue it down more successfully using some strong clamps to hold it while it dried.

 

Andy

[Donw]

If I recall correctly, I weighted the basswood down well (using some old cast iron drawing weights from work) while the pva glue used to secure it to the plywood cured. I can't remember now whether I sealed the basswood before gluing the track down, but the track was glued down with Easitrac glue and it was a few days later that I noticed the curling. The track was never ballasted, although I did manage to straighten the basswood and glue it down more successfully using some strong clamps to hold it while it dried.

 

Andy

 

Interesting Andy the Easitrac glue is solvent based perhaps it is stronger than the PVA  hence the curling. I have some  that I have stuck down on on balsa which hs not curled at all. However I did the work while away in the motorhome and may not have had the easitrac glue to hand and used ordinary PVA . I may check with the proper glue. It was ballasted so not due to that. It would be nice to know what the cause was.

 

Don

[Ian Smith]

I'd be wary of using anything that could possibly swell when soaked with diluted PVA during ballasting. I laid some 2FS track on a baseboard using some thin (1/16" basswood) as a track base and the blasted stuff started to curl up a few days after I'd glued the track down. I think in future I'd use thin birch plywood as it should be more stable.

 

Andy

 

I too have used basswood on Modbury - 0.8mm thick though - also stuck and weighted with PVA.  Like Andy I found that the very edges lifted and curled upwards slightly (only a few thou).  Luckily it seems to only have been the edges that lifted along the line of the grain so the actual track (track laid parallel to grain) has been unaffected as I had left a good few mm outside the line of the track for the ballast shoulder - in reality I needn't have bothered because using 1.5mm thick PCB for my baulks means that I have more than enough shoulder from that alone!

 

Ian

[Donw]

I too have used basswood on Modbury - 0.8mm thick though - also stuck and weighted with PVA.  Like Andy I found that the very edges lifted and curled upwards slightly (only a few thou).  Luckily it seems to only have been the edges that lifted along the line of the grain so the actual track (track laid parallel to grain) has been unaffected as I had left a good few mm outside the line of the track for the ballast shoulder - in reality I needn't have bothered because using 1.5mm thick PCB for my baulks means that I have more than enough shoulder from that alone!

 

Ian

 

I shan't try basswood then.

 

Don

[scanman]

I've been using 2mm 'Depron Foam' for underlay for the last couple of years (3mm in 7mm).  A dense urethane foam - goes down flat and stays flat.  Use a 'foam' type adhesive SPARINGLY, and weight it down with 9mm ply leftovers.  As with everything it has a drawback - don't linger with the soldering iron....

[£1.38]

The quick setting exterior wood adhesives cause little or no warping of wood in my experience. Everbuild 502 is my current supply, obtained from a local timber merchant. I have even managed to stick 2mm MDF down with it successfully.

 

With plywood, basswood and similar, the old trick is to dampen the top surface of the wood just before sticking it down. This balances out any expansion caused by the glue on the lower surface. Works for me..

Edited March 23, 2017 by £1.38

[garethashenden]

Lots of progress with the M7. The new chassis from shop 3 has been built and runs well. I used a direct 38:1 gearing rather than the as-designed gearing because I wanted to power the second axle, rather than the first. I've also made a bit more progress with the body, the smokebox wrapper and tank tops are now in place. There is a problem with the spashers though. They sit a bit lower than they should and short on the wheels, so those will need some attention in the morning.

 

[CF MRC]

Coming on well Gareth. Is the buffer height a bit low, hence the splasher clearance problem.

 

Tim

Edited April 3, 2017 by CF MRC

[Chris Higgs]

Coming on well Gareth. Is the buffer height a bit low, hence the splasher clearance problem.

 

Tim

 

I would not rely on the chassis making your body sit at the right height. I always design the chassis such that the body sits a bit low, so there is room for adjustment by shimming. And this chassis has been designed to allow for the plastic footplate on the Dapol M7 which is about 1mm thick. So it probably needs a fair bit of packing to use it with a scale(ish) thickness brass footplate.

 

The chassis also looks a bit weak at the point where you have omitted the bearing for the unused idler shaft. I would suggest you solder a stengthening plate on at that point. Or just put the bearings in, even though you will not be using them

 

Chris 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Chris Higgs

[garethashenden]

Coming on well Gareth. Is the buffer height a bit low, hence the splasher clearance problem.

 

Tim

That's a good thought, unfortunately the buffer height is spot on. I've measured the splashers compared to the drawings I have and they are undersized. It should be 4.5mm to the top of the sandbox, it's actually 4mm. Then, where it should be 4mm to the top of the splasher, it's 2.5mm. Probably best to fabricate a new pair the right size.

 

Chris, I will put a bit of something in there for strength. I meant to do it earlier but got overexcited by trying to get it running and forgot...

[RichardW1]

The 2-4-0 for Lambourn is now taking shape. Now the major work is done for the basic body and tender, attention can now be given to the chassis. The basic components are in place, and while I wait for delivery of loco wheels I'll spend a bit of time making muffs and motor mounts.

[RichardW1]

The 2-4-0 for Lambourn is now taking shape. Now the major work is done for the basic body and tender, attention can now be given to the chassis. The basic components are in place, and while I wait for delivery of loco wheels I'll spend a bit of time making muffs and motor mounts. image.jpg

Rather than being a 4-2-0, it's now upside down! Not sure now that happened

[RichardW1]

A bit, ok a lot, off topic. Are there any model submariners out there? A work colleague passed away recently, and was interested and had built some r/c subs. I have asked if I knew of any folks who may be interested in acquiring his models or tools. As yet I'm not sure what is available, or indeed any values, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has, or perhaps knows someone who has an interest in this area.

She has not decided yet what she wants to let go of as it is still a bit raw for her, so there is no rush over this.

 

Richard