Zimo Rail Exclusive 47 - oh dear lost all sound

[tractor_37260]

Hi all

        The above says it all, lost all sound on my Rail Exclusive 47  :-(

Lights and movement are OK

No sound on all CV265 options 101 -108 ?  It tries to start v briefly but that's it . 

Tried changing CV265 both on POM and the prog track -  still no sound on any CV265 options.

Tried a reset on CV8 =0  - no difference

Double checked F6 is off - I think it may be something to do with F6 but what ?

Prior to loosing all sound, when sitting idling or coming to a stop etc, it would die out gradually to no sound at all/silence

Also noticed after the reset, the default main Vol was 60 as supplied not 80 as per the drivers manual, 

 

Although maybe not related, I've had this problem briefly on my Zimo 37's especially when changing between different sound sets on CV265 but they always seemed to sort themselves out.

 

Very strange 

 

As for the lights, they are even worse that I first thought, in the falling light this afternoon, noticed that not only is most of the cab front translucent, the cab sides also have light coming through them at one end - this is not really good enough for a 2012/3 model.

 

Hopefully someone can come up with an answer on the sound loss

TIA

Ken

 

 

 

[pauliebanger]

Hi Ken,

 

There are many possibilities short of catastrophe. There's no point stabbing in the dark, let's work through it methodically.

 

Was the sound working when it arrived?

 

CV266 is set at 80 in the project, and a reset using CV8=0 should bring that value up again. CV8=8 is a ZIMO factory reset and will probably give a different value at CV266.

 

Have you used the troubleshooting guide in the 'Train Crew Manual'?

 

Which DCC controller are you using?

 

Will you let me have the decoder ID, please? You can get this by reading CVs number 250, 251, 252 and 253 and writing them down in that order with a colon between each value.

 

There is a fade in and fade out mute facility on F key 20 which, if active, prevent any sounds from playing, whether they are switched on or not. Please confirm that F20 is not switched 'on'.

 

It's possible to 'dim' the lights with CV 60, but I suggest we investigate the sound issue before you tackle that one.

 

Interesting that you have a Class 37 which seems to lose sound but fixes itself. I have never encountered that as a problem before. Did you get that decoder from Digitrains? Is it a Multi-Drive? What is that decoder's ID, please? It would also help to know the software version. Get this by reading values from CV7 then CV65.

 

I'll help you all I can.

 

Paul

 

PS. F6 will reduce the idle sound to zero, but only in the two 'Manual Notching' sound sets. It's unlikely that F6 is the cause of this loss of sound.

[tractor_37260]

Hello Paul

 

 

Was the sound working when it arrived?

>> Yes no problems until switching over sound sets on CV265

 

CV266 is set at 80 in the project, and a reset using CV8=0 should bring that value up again. CV8=8 is a ZIMO factory reset and will probably give a different value at CV266.

>> CV266 was set at 60 when delivered, after using CV8=0 it reads 60, I had reset this to 80 as per the drivers manual

 

Have you used the troubleshooting guide in the 'Train Crew Manual'?

>> Yes tried all the suggestions etc

 

Which DCC controller are you using?

>> Lenz LZV100 V3.6

 

Will you let me have the decoder ID, please? You can get this by reading CVs number 250, 251, 252 and 253 and writing them down in that order with a colon between each value.

>> 221 : 0 : 53 : 232

 

There is a fade in and fade out mute facility on F key 20 which, if active, prevent any sounds from playing, whether they are switched on or not. Please confirm that F20 is not switched 'on'.

>>F20  definately OFF 

 

It's possible to 'dim' the lights with CV 60, but I suggest we investigate the sound issue before you tackle that one.

>> OK

 

Interesting that you have a Class 37 which seems to lose sound but fixes itself. I have never encountered that as a problem before.

Did you get that decoder from Digitrains?  >> Yes

Is it a Multi-Drive? >> Yes

What is that decoder's ID, please?

>> 222 : 100 : 14 : 12

 

It would also help to know the software version. Get this by reading values from CV7 then CV65.

>> 30 : 10

   The 47: Tried resetting it again last night, and it worked as normal, or at least on the selected soundset.  Tried it earlier today, and it's back to no sound at all on all CV265 settings. There's a very brief part of the start up and then just silence. It does the same on each sound set 101-108. No other sounds work. I sure the problems started after changing the sounds set, it would restart and idle for a bit and then gradually fade out to silence.

 

The 37's: They both work fine at the moment. But they also briefly suffered this problem when changing over sound sets, restart idle for a bit and then fade out to silence.

 

As for changing CV265, I presume it makes no difference if POM or prog track is used ? 

 

On the bright side, the 47 sounded really good when I could hear it !  lol

 

I'll help you all I can.

 

Your help is much appreciated

Regards

Ken

[pauliebanger]

   The 47: Tried resetting it again last night, and it worked as normal, or at least on the selected soundset.  Tried it earlier today, and it's back to no sound at all on all CV265 settings. There's a very brief part of the start up and then just silence. It does the same on each sound set 101-108. No other sounds work. I sure the problems started after changing the sounds set, it would restart and idle for a bit and then gradually fade out to silence.

 

The 37's: They both work fine at the moment. But they also briefly suffered this problem when changing over sound sets, restart idle for a bit and then fade out to silence.

 

As for changing CV265, I presume it makes no difference if POM or prog track is used ? 

 

On the bright side, the 47 sounded really good when I could hear it !  lol

 

Ken,

 

OK, I've looked through my QC records. There is nothing to suggest a problem with the decoder, and changing sound sets is one of the tests I made on all decoders for RE.

 

I have had the odd decoder fail after a short service, but this is pretty rare.

 

I have never encountered a decoder which loses sound then gets it back again. Are you saying that the sound is lost after CV265 changes on both the 37 and 47? The they each recover after being unpowered? They both now seem to have the powers of self-healing (I don't use that in a flippant way), which suggests it's an operational problem, which when cleared, allows the decoder to act normally until the issue arises again.

 

It could be the decoder's thermal cut-out - it there any undue heat being generated? However, I would expect the motor to stop working temporarily if this were the case, and this does not seem to be your experience.

 

Have all the sound loss events happened after changing CV265? The process of changing CV265 is to simply change a single value, however, in the background many individual CVs are automatically changed at the same time. If something goes wrong with this process, odd results may occur.

 

Your question about CV265 and POM may be a clue.

 

For CV265, there is a difference between the POM and Service mode (programming track).

 

The decoder needs to 'see' a break in supply in order to change certain CVs and 265 is one of them. It's mentioned in the Train Crew Manual, page 14.

 

Normally, switching to Programming Track, cuts the power briefly either because you physically lift the loco to another place, or the controller 'switches' the output, going through a 'no power' state. This should work perfectly for all CVs, but of course POM is much more convenient for many other types of changes you may desire.

 

POM does not 'cycle' or cut the power, otherwise anything else running would be stopped too. It's possible to use POM to change sound sets with CV265, but on most DCC systems any changes will not be activated until power is cut to the decoder. So, if you use POM to change the value in CV265, you will need to tilt the loco to one side so that all wheels/contacts on one side leave the track. Usually, a momentary rocking would suffice, but as your loco comes with a 2200uF capacitor as standard equipment, that will keep the memory alive for longer. I suggest you try one of the following options when changing CV265.

 

1.Use Service Mode Programming on a programming track.

2.Use POM, but tilt the loco to one side immediately afterwards, and hold it tilted for several seconds.

3.Use POM, but remove the loco from the track immediately afterwards for a few seconds.

 

These will give the best chance for CV265 changes to be saved correctly.

 

If you try this, and you still experience sound loss, please read and let me know the values in the following CVs - 273, 274, 275, 276, 283 and 286.

 

Please let me know how you get on.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[tractor_37260]

Paul

 

OK, I've looked through my QC records. There is nothing to suggest a problem with the decoder, and changing sound sets is one of the tests I made on all decoders for RE.

 

I have had the odd decoder fail after a short service, but this is pretty rare.

 

I have never encountered a decoder which loses sound then gets it back again. Are you saying that the sound is lost after CV265 changes on both the 37 and 47? The they each recover after being unpowered? They both now seem to have the powers of self-healing (I don't use that in a flippant way), which suggests it's an operational problem, which when cleared, allows the decoder to act normally until the issue arises again.

 

>>I  managed to get sound back working on the 47 this afternoon, don't know how or why it suddenly started working again.  I also managed to change over the sound sets on CV265 by using the prog track ONLY and not POM.  It would seem ?  that allowing the loco to shut down completely (rather than trying to change CV265 over with the loco idling with sound) seemed to help ? should/would this make any difference ? 

 

The feed from the LZV to the main track/prog track is wired through a DPDT centre off switch.  

Setting the switch to off cuts all power to the track, the lights slowly fade out in the loco, presumably draining the cap in the process.  (Then) switching to prog track and selecting a sound set via CV265, the locos lights give one "flash" confirming programming has taken place, reading back also confirms the chosen selection.  Leaving the switch at off and and also lifting one side of the loco briefly off the track, before switching back to track power. 

 

Ran the loco for while and changed over the CV265 a few times and all was working fine,  shut it down and went to get dinner, came back and sadly no sound start up again ! on any CV265 option - curses !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Plan to take the body off tomorrow and check for any obvious loose/bad connections etc

   It could be the decoder's thermal cut-out - it there any undue heat being generated? However, I would expect the motor to stop working temporarily if this were the case, and this does not seem to be your experience.

  >> Never been any problems with the running or the lights, and no heat problems

Have all the sound loss events happened after changing CV265? The process of changing CV265 is to simply change a single value, however, in the background many individual CVs are automatically changed at the same time. If something goes wrong with this process, odd results may occur.

>>  Yes both on the 47 and 37's sound losses occurred only when/after changing CV265, not at any other time.

 

Your question about CV265 and POM may be a clue.

 

For CV265, there is a difference between the POM and Service mode (programming track).

 

The decoder needs to 'see' a break in supply in order to change certain CVs and 265 is one of them. It's mentioned in the Train Crew Manual, page 14.

 

Normally, switching to Programming Track, cuts the power briefly either because you physically lift the loco to another place, or the controller 'switches' the output, going through a 'no power' state. This should work perfectly for all CVs, but of course POM is much more convenient for many other types of changes you may desire.

 

POM does not 'cycle' or cut the power, otherwise anything else running would be stopped too. It's possible to use POM to change sound sets with CV265, but on most DCC systems any changes will not be activated until power is cut to the decoder. So, if you use POM to change the value in CV265, you will need to tilt the loco to one side so that all wheels/contacts on one side leave the track. Usually, a momentary rocking would suffice, but as your loco comes with a 2200uF capacitor as standard equipment, that will keep the memory alive for longer. I suggest you try one of the following options when changing CV265.

 

1.Use Service Mode Programming on a programming track.

2.Use POM, but tilt the loco to one side immediately afterwards, and hold it tilted for several seconds.

3.Use POM, but remove the loco from the track immediately afterwards for a few seconds.

 

These will give the best chance for CV265 changes to be saved correctly.

>> Reading back CV265 confirms the settings are getting saved/accepted, using the prog track.

 

If you try this, and you still experience sound loss, please read and let me know the values in the following CVs - 273, 274, 275, 276, 283 and 286.

>>  CV 273  :   20

       CV 274  :     1

       CV 275 :  140

       CV 276 :  140

       CV 283 :  150 

       CV 286 :  130

    

 

Over to you

 

Regards

 

Ken

[pauliebanger]

Hi Ken,

 

OK, no problem with those CVs. I can't think of much more to try which is 'non-intrusive'.

 

At this point, with a brand new purchase, I would advise anyone not to tinker but to send it back for a replacement. It's always possible that you have been unlucky enough to get a faulty decoder or model. This will need to be tested to find the source of the problem. ZIMO decoders have built-in error logging which can be read at the factory.

 

However, that would ignore the Class 37 behaviour.

 

What I find odd is that in all the ZIMO sound decoders I've programmed, I've not experienced this type of behaviour before and none have been reported back to me, yet you have it with two different ZIMO decoder types, from two different sources and with two different sound projects loaded.

 

How does the 37 react to CV265 changes using the programming track method? Has this now cured the problem for the 37?

 

Back to the 47, what are the values in CVs 313 and 314, please?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[tractor_37260]

Hi Ken,

 

OK, no problem with those CVs. I can't think of much more to try which is 'non-intrusive'.

 

At this point, with a brand new purchase, I would advise anyone not to tinker but to send it back for a replacement. It's always possible that you have been unlucky enough to get a faulty decoder or model. This will need to be tested to find the source of the problem. ZIMO decoders have built-in error logging which can be read at the factory.

 

However, that would ignore the Class 37 behaviour.

 

What I find odd is that in all the ZIMO sound decoders I've programmed, I've not experienced this type of behaviour before and none have been reported back to me, yet you have it with two different ZIMO decoder types, from two different sources and with two different sound projects loaded.

 

How does the 37 react to CV265 changes using the programming track method? Has this now cured the problem for the 37?

 

Back to the 47, what are the values in CVs 313 and 314, please?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Paul

        Aha - I've found the problem ! on the 47. On removing the body, both speaker wires were snagged between the speaker mounting and the circuit board edge, both being almost severed and possibly touching each other also, thankfully this did not blow the chip. Hence it would work one minute and not the next, No problem now with the sound or changing sound sets etc. Fingers crossed that's the problem sorted and it will now keep working !

 

Re CV60 for the lights.  Default  = 0   what's the range adjustment for dimming ? 

 

As for the 37's, I installed the twin speakers/wiring, but I'll double check the wiring.  They both work fine at the moment.  Over the hol, I'll experiment with changing CV265 on them on both POM & prog track and see what if anything happens !

 

In hindsight, I should have taken the 47 body off sooner, would have saved you a lot of hassle !

 

Thanks again for all your help

 

Have a Great New Year 

 

Regards

Ken

[pauliebanger]

Hi Ken,

 

Ha ha. That sort of diagnosis is much easier with the patient to hand! I am really pleased you have sorted it. I hardly slept a wink last night.

 

Hard to understand how a mechanical break caused the sounds to 'faded out' rather than just be on or off, though. That threw me a bit.

 

Hopefully, you can now experience the sounds in their full glory.

 

I'd be interested to know which sound sets you prefer for your set-up (and what you layout is like) when you have had the chance to get everything settled in.

 

I will probably extend these new driving features into the Class 37 next time I revise it.

 

CV 60. Using PWM,this sets the frequency and ratio of 'on' to 'off' globally (ie for all functions) effectively varying the current supplied. (CV 114 allows you to 'mask' this effect from any number of individual functions).

 

The range is 0 - 255 (though both 0 and 255 give maximum output). low value = low output, high value = high output. Useful start point would be around 100. Also, The colour of the marker lights can be toned down with an amber tint, the sort of thing you may have used if you ever took a car to France 'in the old days'. Thus you can have more protoypical marker lights, whilst any high intensity lamps fitted can be a bluer white.

 

Since the standard set-up in this model is for white at one end to be switched with the red at the other, changing with direction, I assume they are wired together. This means that dimming will affect both white and red lights.

 

Some matt black paint on the inside of the body can help reduce the translucency. Bacofoil blocks out all light, but is conductive and not so easy to apply so care is required.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul