MakerBot Replicator 2 Desktop 3D Printer & Next Engine Laser Scanner

[Grasslands]

Hello

 

I am new to this section of the forum but have been very impressed by some of the 3D modelling people have been doing here.

 

I came across these two products while doing some research on 3D printing:

 

MakerBot Replicator 2:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o6pcbhylmQ

 

and the NextEngine 3D Scanner:

 

http://www.nextengine.com/

 

I must admit that all this looks very exciting to me. Maybe the future of modelling is assured, but it is just quite different to what we are use to.

 

I was wondering if anybody knows how good these products are and if they are worth considering (think the 3D scanner is a few years away from being affordable, but the Replicator 2 looks to justify it's cost (particularly if you were making things for sale).

 

Does anyone have one of these?

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Pugsley]

Whilst I don't have any direct experience of the Replicator, I suspect that it won't have the resolution required for scale model work - the stepping between the layers will be too pronounced.

 

That NextEngine scanner looks to be bloody good for the price though. Whilst it is still relatively expensive, it's a fraction of the cost of devices normally used for that kind of thing. I wouldn't mind one of them!

[Grasslands]

Whilst I don't have any direct experience of the Replicator, I suspect that it won't have the resolution required for scale model work - the stepping between the layers will be too pronounced.

 

Interesting. I didn't realise the stepping might be an issue with the Replicator 2. I thought the owl and the building looked pretty darn good.

 

And yes the 3D scanner is fascinating, it makes me wonder whether such a device would have a Napster-like impact on production. Can you imagine the copyright turmoil.

 

It would be great to have for replicating model houses and figures. It would really speed up production of a model.

[Pugsley]

Of the FDM machines, which is the same type as the Replicator, the Ultimaker seems to have a reputation for the best surface finish. As you can see here though, the stepping is still quite pronounced:

 

http://www.hive76.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/UltimakerYodaPrint_OnKeyboard.jpg

[Grasslands]

Of the FDM machines, which is the same type as the Replicator, the Ultimaker seems to have a reputation for the best surface finish. As you can see here though, the stepping is still quite pronounced:http://www.hive76.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/UltimakerYodaPrint_OnKeyboard.jpg

Are companies like Shapeways and imaterialize able to do better finishes (less obvious stepping)?

[Etched Pixels]

Shapeways support both different processes (with more detail/less stepping) and also machine polishing which increasingly looks the answer.

 

The value of your own 3D printer though is turning stuff around fast (eg prototyping) or fun. It's at the stage home computing was when I was growing up - by the the time you buy it, it's obsolete, every improvement is major, and it doesn't compare to professional kit.

 

Alan

[Grasslands]

Sounds great, i think i will tackle developing some 3D modelling skills and see how that goes before i start making an investment. But must, admit the future looks fun.

[Dazzler Fan]

My suggestion is to put your money into professional 3D drafting, and use the

services of someone like Shapeways.

 

The Rerap machines, in their various forms, are not for the detail a 4mm modeller

would accept.

[Pugsley]

and it doesn't compare to professional kit.

I think that's changing though - both the Form 1 and the B9 Creator have resolutions that will give professional equipment a run for their money.

[Etched Pixels]

It is changing - the big challenge with DLP and resins is finding safe resins for home use that are also cheap. The price of other tools like milling machinery is also dropping rapidly and thats another important tool which can do many things 3D print doesn't and vice versa

[Marbelup]

Etched Pixels

 

For the benefit of others, please elaborate on your safety concerns about resins.

 

Thanks

[Marbelup]

My suggestion is to put your money into professional 3D drafting, and use the

services of someone like Shapeways.

 

The Rerap machines, in their various forms, are not for the detail a 4mm modeller

would accept.

 

I was very disappointed with quality of test parts from Shapeways (FUD and FD) and it seems their quality control is non-existent, as they frequently send out poor quality parts to customers and only reprint them if the customers complain loudly enough.

 

The latest generation of home machines, particular the SLA ones, are a cut above what was available previously.

 

When you write "professional 3D drafting", so you mean the CAD software or are you suggesting paying someone to do the drafting for you?  It took me 4-5 weeks of "spare time" to design a very detailed diesel loco body, so a "professional" working full time might have taken 2-3 weeks, if they knew what they were doing.  I doubt whether that would be affordable to the average modeller.

[Grasslands]

I was very disappointed with quality of test parts from Shapeways (FUD and FD) and it seems their quality control is non-existent, as they frequently send out poor quality parts to customers and only reprint them if the customers complain loudly enough.

 

The latest generation of home machines, particular the SLA ones, are a cut above what was available previously.

 

When you write "professional 3D drafting", so you mean the CAD software or are you suggesting paying someone to do the drafting for you?  It took me 4-5 weeks of "spare time" to design a very detailed diesel loco body, so a "professional" working full time might have taken 2-3 weeks, if they knew what they were doing.  I doubt whether that would be affordable to the average modeller.

Hi Richard. Would you say that a home SLA machine is giving better output than shapeways? Are there better firms out there than shapeways?

[Pugsley]

Are there better firms out there than shapeways?

Fineline Prototyping have a good reputation, and their MicroFine Green material offers a resolution greater than that of FUD. There's a magnitude of difference in the cost, however.

[Rabs]

I've just started experimenting with my B9 Creator (one of the new home SLA machines).  It has a nominal resolution of 50um, and the minimum wall and feature sizes seem to be similar to FUD.  I've got some teething issues at the moment but initial results look pretty good for the price of the machine.  I've posted some results here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66521-and-who-says-that-home-3d-printing-cant-do-detail/page-2

I've not quite tuned it fully yet, but at a guess I think I will be able to match FUD, but not beat it for accuracy.  At least, not until I fit an HD projector and take the resolution down to 25um!

The real difference to shapeways is that if it doesn't work it's only £1 lost, not £40 and I can simply tweak the model and print it again!

[Marbelup]

Hi Richard. Would you say that a home SLA machine is giving better output than shapeways? Are there better firms out there than shapeways?

 

I haven't seen any output "in the flesh" from home SLA machines so I can't say at this stage.

 

It does seem, from the experience of a number of users, that Shapeways are capable of very good results with their FUD material but their lack of consistency is a major drawback.  Also, the wax supporting material used with Shapeways FUD affects the surface quality (and subsequent painting) if it is on an outside surface.  

 

I have also seen photos of very good results from Finelines in the US, but I understand their prices are high.  I have also seen very good results for small parts from Mark4Design in New Zealand, but they caution that their resin is not suitable for complete loco or rolling stock bodies in scales larger than N.

[Etched Pixels]

Etched Pixels

 

For the benefit of others, please elaborate on your safety concerns about resins.

 

Thanks

 

It's not so much the end user safety of the printed object - although that is important but largely a solved problem. There are resins considered basically safe once reacted - even for dental use in some cases.

 

For a home product the suppliers have to find chemicals which work with DLP printing and are considered to some degree safe plus ideally cheap. For industrial products it is less of an issue. Quite a lot of the industrial DLP resins require you wander around in a lab outfit with plastic gloves, eye protectors and so on, in a carefully ventilated room and that the residues are reprocessed not dumped in a bin/sink. That doesn't translate well to home use!

 

There are pricier resins which are not too horrendous to handle - BISGMA and UDMA resins are the usual ones. BISGMA based resins are cleared for some clinical uses. Most resins have other problems - going brittle in direct sunlight, capable of catching fire easily at  < 100C etc.

 

Right now the resins easily available are not that cheap - there are people trying to do a good range of suitable resins for things like the B9 printer. Spot-A are the main European one that springs to mind. You need protective eyewear, gloves etc to handle the B9Creator output for post print processing and clean up, you need good ventilation and you should have fire protection equipment as quite a few of the resins can explode in the container given some types of impurities.

 

(It's not unique in this - you shouldn't be using a reprap without safety glasses on either,  if you've seen what happens if condensation hits the hot glass plate and you used cheap glass you'd get the idea why ! Likewise you should have good ventilation.)

 

To make DLP 3D printers fly for real general home use you need to end up with resins that can't explode, products that at worst are "now wash your hands" and residue that can go in the household waste, and preferably a low price. For now that is an unsolved problem. Solving it will make someone rich - far richer than the printer makers. Just look at laser toner !

 

I suspect btw this one of the reasons the first 3D printers going into print services print using blocks of paper

 

Alan

[TheAlchemist]

Hi Etched Pixels,

 

Do you know whether the resins supplied for 3D printing conform to current EC Regulations for the placing of chemicals on the market, such as REACH and CLP?

 

I presume that a Barcelona based company such as Spot-A will be aware of the need for pre-registered or Registered ingredients.

 

I understand that the photochemical reaction will produce a new (polymeric?) article from the printer, but perhaps hazardous chemicals may be liberated; these must of course be declared to industrial users and packages for supply to consumers eg hobbyists should be labelled to provide adequate precautionary information for the user. Are the hazards to which you refer in your post of 14th Jan. such as may have properties needing downstream hazardous information in the supply chain?

 

TheAlchemist

[Mr Nik]

Hi all, 

 

My photographic department has a MakerBot Replicator 2 Desktop 3D Printer. It's not too bad, though we've only done prints from thingiverse.com so far as we haven't had time to do lots of our own modelling. 

 

If anyone has a file that they'd like us to do a test print of to see what the quality is like then send me a PM and i'll fix you up with some contact details. We'd have to levy a small charge for the materials and subsequent postage but other than that it will be a useful experiment for us as well.

 

We only have the translucent filament at the moment but will be looking to order all of the other colours next week.

 

Regards, Mr. Nik. 

[Etched Pixels]

information for the user. Are the hazards to which you refer in your post of 14th Jan. such as may have properties needing downstream hazardous information in the supply chain?

 

TheAlchemist

 

Ask your (potential) supplier (and I'd suggest in writing). It also depends what you are doing with them - food safe, child safe, electrical safe, fire safe,  'scale model for adult collectors only' etc all have different rules.

 

Shapeways materials for example are not generally food safe.