Coal to Westbury Cement/ cement out 1980s

[rob D2]

Hi,

Assuming coal went to the cement works there in this period -

/ What wagons carried it ?

/ what locos

/ where did it originate ?

 

I am aware of the HAA usage in later periods for this but it's specifically the blue period I'm after.

 

Also,

on ' rivercider' s excellent Flickr photo pages , there us pressflos behind an 08 being tripped to the yard at Westbury from the cement works

 

Where were they going ? Was it trainloads or part of a speedlink move ?

 

Thanks !

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Hi Rob,

 

Toton to Westbury rings bells....I'll fish out the appropriate WTT.

 

BR WR Section PG May to October 1980 shows the inbound service as 6V56 17.53 MWO Dinnington colliery to Westbury via Bathampton (04.12 TTHO running round at Westbury) AIR in the column indicates diagrammed for air braked wagons. The returning 6E46 was an 06.05 departure for Worksop TTHO via Bathampton.

 

I would expect HEA wagon types to have been used.

 

6B22 was the 16.40 Westbury cement works to Exeter Central presflo working in this WTT and probably accounts for the shunt that you mention. 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

In 'BR Freight Services in Focus' by B. J. Nicolle 45037 is seen at Landor St, Birmingham working 6E46, the return empties in Feb 1981. The angle of the view means that only 2 wagons can be seen and they are both bauxite liveried HBAs. 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Rivercider]

Looking back through my notes for the picture of 08951 on the trip from the cement works

I took the photo between 11.05 and 11.57 on saturday 3/1/81, it looks like 24 or 25 presflos. 

I think sometimes traffic was tripped out from the cement works and the train then started from Westbury Yard.

It would almost certainly be going forward as a block train and Dave may be right about it being Exeter Central traffic,

I am not sure what other terminals were still served by trainloads at that time, Northam Yard Southampton, Poole and Hamworthy?  

Avonside Wharf at Bristol may have finished by then.

 

Here is a later picture of an airbraked trip from the cement works, this may be cement PCAs and empty flyash PCAs for Longannet,

08949 passes Westbury Panel Signal Box with a trip from Blue Circle Cement Works, 17/7/85

 

cheers

 

 

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Neither the 1980 WTT or its two supplements indicates any other planned destination for Westbury cement by 1980. The occasional special working is a possibility though.

 

Cheers

 

Dave 

[Rivercider]

Neither the 1980 WTT or its two supplements indicates any other planned destination for Westbury cement by 1980. The occasional special working is a possibility though.

 

Cheers

 

Dave 

I have had a look through my old pictures, and In one of my photos of Bristol Temple Meads, taken on 24th June 1980, 

presflos can be seen in the background on Avonside Wharf, so the traffic was still running then, presumably as specials in the weekly freight plan.

At one time there were 3 trains a week, the traffic must have been dwindling by then though.

 

Traffic for Barnstaple was only wagonload, and passed via a Westbury - Exeter and return service which was originally vacuum braked

but later became a Speedlink feeder service when PCAs were used, 

 

 

cheers 

[6Y99]

Hi All,

By 1989 Rufford Colliery was the main supplier of coal to Westbury Cement Works via the Speedlink Coal Network the traffic was moved in HEA Hopper and on the following trains:

6E93 SX 1525 Toton North Yard - Rufford Colliery
6V24 MX 2140 Rufford Colliery - Didcot T.C.
6A04 SX 0400 Didcot T.C. - Westbury Cement Works (via Newbury)
6B03 SX 0630 Westbury Cement Works - Radyr Yard
6M05 MX 0042 Radyr Yard - Wasward Heath
6D04 SX 1900 Washward Heath - Toton North Yard

By this point the coal for Westbury was being delivered once a week the WTT's show the trains running SX obviously there was other traffic being convayed from Rufford destined for other locations in South and West

Hope this helps

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

I have had a look through my old pictures, and In one of my photos of Bristol Temple Meads, taken on 24th June 1980, 

presflos can be seen in the background on Avonside Wharf, so the traffic was still running then, presumably as specials in the weekly freight plan.

At one time there were 3 trains a week, the traffic must have been dwindling by then though.

 

Traffic for Barnstaple was only wagonload, and passed via a Westbury - Exeter and return service which was originally vacuum braked

but later became a Speedlink feeder service when PCAs were used, 

 

In the Ivo Peters colour book 'Railway Elegance' there are several pictures of cuts of presflos between Westbury and Bath/Bristol in partially fitted mixed freights 1980ish. This suggests that cement traffic to/from Westbury didn't always travel in block trains at this time and may explain your observations re the above.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

When the cement works coal went over to air brake wagons HEAs were used.  The train usually only ran on one day per week although if the cement works were busy there would be a second trip.

[rob D2]

Thank you all for your input, HEAs seem the order of the day as there is no evidence of 21T hoppers or 16T minerals .

 

Cheers

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

....or HBAs if you're modelling the traffic in the early eighties.

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you all for your input, HEAs seem the order of the day as there is no evidence of 21T hoppers or 16T minerals .

 

Cheers

21T hoppers were used prior to the train going over to HEAs but the working was different as the train did not run direct to the cement works but terminated at Westbury and the wagons were tripped out.  When the working was changed over to HEAs the train ran 'direct' to the cement works - duly running round at Westbury as Hawkeridge 'box was normally switched out.

 

The works used hopper discharge so I'm fairly sure 16tonners were never used on the flow and I certainly never saw any going either in or out.

[rob D2]

Thanks guys,

What's an HBA ? that wagon seems to have alluded me...

[Rivercider]

Thanks guys,

What's an HBA ? that wagon seems to have alluded me...

A simple explanation from a non-expert, HBAs and HEAs are the same thing,

 

HBAs were the wagonload equivalent of the HAA Merry-go-Round hopper.

Numbered from 360000 they were introduced from 1975, they were restricted to 45MPH.

Later, from the late 1970s, modified suspension was applied to them, and alterations to the ladders

and they were able to run at 60MPH, these were recoded HEA and were then used on the Speedlink Coal Network.

I think some of the later build were HEA from new with the revised suspension.

 

cheers

[rob D2]

Ah right ok , just a code difference, could use the bachy HEA then .

thinking of about '82 would you see more in brown or more in red / grey schemes ?

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Rob,

 

You should be able to make the train more interesting by including different liveries and springing etc but study a few close up prototype pics of each wagon type to get a feel for what changed first. Paul Bartletts site should have some good pics. Due to the speed difference the HEAs and HBAs are less likely to be mixed alternately and more likely to be in distinct sections. BR would have tried to keep rakes of HEAs together for the speed advantage but during this transition period a mixed consist wouldn't be unusual. 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Rivercider]

Ah right ok , just a code difference, could use the bachy HEA then .

thinking of about '82 would you see more in brown or more in red / grey schemes ?

Looking through Paul Bartlett site, the LTSV Wagons site, and Flickr it seems to be a right mix!

 

The first wagons into red/grey were in 1979, by which time the HBA to HEA conversion programe was under way.

It seem the last HBAs were converted in 1985? Prior to that they could have run mixed HBA/HEA as long as the train was timed at 45MPH.

Some HEAs lasted in brown into the 2000s, so for 1982 you could justify any mix of red/grey versus brown I should think

 

cheers

[rob D2]

Thanks mate,

appreciate that. My plank is supposed to be West Country BR , and seems to be looking more like a cement works , so I'm thinking Of westbury as inspiration .

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Rob,

 

Don't forget the gypsum working into the cement works (sheeted unfitted or vac brake 2 axle opens were the norm at that time). I'll see if I can find the details.

 

Dave

[rob D2]

Thanks Dave, haven't seen any photos of that operation

[Rivercider]

Rob,

 

Don't forget the gypsum working into the cement works (sheeted unfitted or vac brake 2 axle opens were the norm at that time). I'll see if I can find the details.

 

Dave

In the Speedlink era Westbury received Pulverised Fuel Ash (PFA) from Longannet which I believe was used instead of, or as well as, gypsum.

I may have mis-identified the wagons in my pictures, though I am fairly certain they were PCAs, and were in TOPS pool 0333.

 

cheers

[brian daniels]

When I drove the speedlink coal trains from Washwood Heath to Didcot the Westbury traffic was in HDA's. I do not recall it ever being in HEA's through Didcot. The HDA is a HAA with variable loading valves so you get more brake force when loaded which is nice so you can stop the train! The HAA's only had, if memory serves me right, 10 ton brake force loaded and empty which with 45 on to Didcot P Stn you got 450 ton brake force which is why they were run as a class 7 at 45mph but empty you could run at 60mph due to your 450 ton brake force being ok with a lighter train. You can tell an HDA from an HAA as it has it's distributor on top of one end platform. The attached picture shows an HDA re-coded to an HBA and I can't for the life of me remember what mods was done to them to make them do this.

 

 

The HEA's were built with the larger springs and coded HBA's but as far as know they were still 60 mph wagons. 

 

 

The first 100 or so were built with centre end ladders and were never changed.

 

 

About 3 had different suspensions tried. I got 2 of them.

 

 

 

I did get quite attached to HEA's whilst driving them from/to Washwood Heath, Chessington, Neasden, Aylesbury, West Drayton, Bow/Temple Mills and Oxford South Yard. When we left Washwood Heath with 6V24 at about 03:00 I think, it did look like a train for Didcot P.Stn some times with most of the train made up of MGR HDA's for Westbury but the big difference was the 2 37's on the front   The signalmen always hung out of Saltley box as we attacked the bank at St Andrews at full bore with 45 wagons and just over 2,000 tons. Happy days.

 

 

 

[rob D2]

Interesting stuff ,

I hope you were well ' attached' to them Brian.

When you say speedlink coal, do you mean later 80s with coal diamonds etc ?

 

I'm trying to work out if I should get HEAs for the model or HAAs ... closest ill get to an HDA .

Although Kevin has the photo proof of HEAs....

Irritatingly I sold my Bachmann 45 and HEAs when I was made redundant which may have been ideal for this model

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting stuff ,

I hope you were well ' attached' to them Brian.

When you say speedlink coal, do you mean later 80s with coal diamonds etc ?

 

I'm trying to work out if I should get HEAs for the model or HAAs ... closest ill get to an HDA .

Although Kevin has the photo proof of HEAs....

Irritatingly I sold my Bachmann 45 and HEAs when I was made redundant which may have been ideal for this model

Well a 46 might have been better, just, as they tended to be the usual traction when the AB flow began if memory serves me rightly.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Rob,

 

It may be the case that the HBAs were 45mph loaded and 60mph empty as is the case with some other coal wagons.

 

I have a May 78 picture of the gypsum approaching Bath en route to Westbury behind a 46in Ivo Peter's 'Railway Elegance'. I'll check the WTTs for a few dates and headcodes.

 

Dave