9FEd Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I've made an account on this website specifically to comment on this thread, sorry if I am a little late (I am not a railway modeller, but I live in Northwich and have been researching the local chemical industry for a few years). I have not read or heard of a turntable anywhere in the works, although it is highly likely that there was one at some point during the first half of the 20th century. If you study the map I have attached (from around 1965-66), you will notice a loop next to the river that seems to have been accessed through the right hand group of sidings. Is it possible that this loop was used to turn steam locomotives? I can provide the full map of the works if anyone needs it. Many thanks for taking time to set up an account and contribute. This thread also motivated me to do the same so it clearly has broad appeal! I would be very interested in a map of the full works, would it be possible for you to send me a copy? If you have any maps or material that cover the so-called 'Wallerscote Light Railway' than ran from the exchange sidings next the West Coast Main Line at Gorstage to the Wallerscote works that would also be very interesting (information on it is very hard to find). However, as a non-railway modeller that may well be too specific a request. My interest in railways is also more general (born out of studying economic history) and so you may find my undergraduate dissertation interesting (based on a case study of Brunner Mond) which investigates how the British economy would have developed without the railways. You can read it here: http://www.lse.ac.uk/economicHistory/workingPapers/2012/WP166_.pdf As ever, stick to the abstract, introduction and conclusion if you just want a quick overview. Edited April 23, 2014 by 9FEd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Hi Ed, many years ago I was given by someone I can't remember who just now a photograph of a loaded hopper train on the Gorstage branch heading from Hartford exchange sidings to Wallerscote works. It was a photo mounted a foam type paper as I recall. It looks like the rake of hoppers is being hauled by one of the works 0-6-0 class 08 type shunters and is taken from the B5153 Northwich Rd overbridge looking east/north-east towards Wallerscote. HTH Cheers Paul Edited April 24, 2014 by pharrc20 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Hi everyone, enjoying reading this thread so thought I would show you a copy of a 1965 25" OS of Oakleigh sidings. It's a bit earlier than the dates the OP was asking for but matches up with the other map posted on here. I dont recall Oakleigh sidings changing much until the late 80's (?) so it might be of use. Also I don't think there was ever a turntable on the branch. Any turning would have been done on the Hartford triangle. There probably was a triangle in the works at some time (certain there was but unable to find the map at the moment) but it would have been out of bounds to CLC loco's. Having said that I have quite a few pictures of the branch and none show a loco hauling a train in or out tender/bunker first! I assume there was a lot of LE movements from Winnington (Gravel Pit Sidings) to Hartford to get the loco's facing the right way for trains traveling any distance although most traffic would only be tripped to Northwich, willing to be corrected though. Edited April 29, 2014 by Harry Welch 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) Hi, Back in 1980 or 81 I went on the 'Mond Special Railtour' which was a brake van trip from Northwich, through Oakleigh, Winnington Works, Gorstage sidings then back to Northwich. Does any one remember it? If I can find the pictures I took I will put them on here. Edited April 27, 2014 by Harry Welch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9FEd Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi, Back in 1980 or 81 I went on the 'Mond Special Railtour' which was a brake van trip from Northwich, through Oakleigh, Winnington Works, Gorstage sidings then back to Northwich. Does any one remember it? If I can find the pictures I took I will put them on here. This is a tantalising prospect, have you had any luck at digging out the photos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi everyone, sorry to say that so far they have not surfaced (house move and an extension have not helped!) but will keep looking. Some good news is that I have found my copy of a layout plan for the Wallerscote Light Rly. Quite a few pages but here is the bit showing Gorstage Sdgs but strangly not showing properly the connection on to the ICI branch. Have got the rest if any one on here is interested but it is a bit big to put it all on here. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Here is some more. I have stiched together the A4 copies I have together but that makes the file size too big. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 And some more. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Here is the last part showing Gorstage Sidings. I will try and post Oakleigh Sidings tomorrow. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Here is a copy of the front cover. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9FEd Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Wow, thanks for scanning and uploading this unexpected gem! I have never seen a plan of Gorstage sidings so this is a most excellent find, what were the plans published in? Thanks again, I would definitely be interested to see the remainder (as "see page 4" teases on the fourth photo...). Very interesting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Hi everyone, As promised here are the maps of Oakleigh Sidings. I think this was an ICI document, probably from the Rly archive mentioned above. I assume it dates from around the time of it's opening which I think was around 1953, the same time as Oakleigh. I think it was coloured up into different sections (see front cover) but I only have this quite old B&W photocopy. Not certain where the orignal is now. I will have to rescan the rest of the map in order to fit it on here which I will do in the next day or two. Edited May 3, 2014 by Harry Welch 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9FEd Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Thanks for the further scans Harry, a shame the original archive copies have gone missing because it looks like a very interesting document and no doubt there were other ones too. I really do appreciate all the scanning, if you have time it would be great to see a scan of the page that covers the Wallerscote works and in particular Wallerscote Island (assuming the document covers that area). I really wasn't expecting for a plan of Gorstage sidings to come up so many thanks for taking the time to post, it fills a big gap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Oakleigh Sdgs map 1965.jpgHi everyone, enjoying reading this thread so thought I would show you a copy of a 1965 25" OS of Oakleigh sidings. It's a bit earlier than the dates the OP was asking for but matches up with the other map posted on here. I dont recall Oakleigh sidings changing much until the late 80's (?) so it might be of use. Also I don't think there was ever a turntable on the branch. Any turning would have been done on the Hartford triangle. There probably was a triangle in the works at some time (certain there was but unable to find the map at the moment) but it would have been out of bounds to CLC loco's. Having said that I have quite a few pictures of the branch and none show a loco hauling a train in or out tender/bunker first! I assume there was a lot of LE movements from Winnington (Gravel Pit Sidings) to Hartford to get the loco's facing the right way for trains traveling any distance although most traffic would only be tripped to Northwich, willing to be corrected though. Hi, I just came across this and although I don't think I can help it has given me pleasure in looking. As a very young boy I would walk across the pedestrian bridge in Verdin Park to get from my house in Waterloo Road ( Oak Tree Inn- yes I was brought up in the pub!) on the way to and from Winnington Park School. Many a penny placed on those lines! Happy days. Edited May 3, 2014 by bgman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Thanks for the further scans Harry, a shame the original archive copies have gone missing because it looks like a very interesting document and no doubt there were other ones too. I really do appreciate all the scanning, if you have time it would be great to see a scan of the page that covers the Wallerscote works and in particular Wallerscote Island (assuming the document covers that area). I really wasn't expecting for a plan of Gorstage sidings to come up so many thanks for taking the time to post, it fills a big gap. Glad you liked it. I will put try and post the rest of the map on here tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Hi everyone, Here as promised are the rest of the Wallerscote/Oakleigh maps. Sorry about the big overlaps but thats how they came to me. Hope everyone finds them of interest. If I turn up anything else interesting (including the pictures I mentioned!) I will put it on here. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Forgot to say that the section from Wallerscote Sidings (Gorstage), under Northwich Road and on to the 'Western Approach' is missing. It was either missing from the orignal plan or most probably missed off when being photo copied. Sorry about that. Edited May 7, 2014 by Harry Welch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Some photos taken in the sidings at Hartford Jcn and shown in posts 31 & 32. All taken 23/11/1986. Looking south towards Hartford Jcn, ICI line off to left Turning around and looking north Not quite sure where this in the sidings but I think it was at the north end of the sidings. On the line to the works, first looking to BR and the second looking to the works (I think). Edited May 7, 2014 by flyingsignalman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Thanks for scanning all the maps Harry - very interesting stuff. Thanks also for posting the above photos Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Wow, for me those track plans highlight just how many sidings have been removed over the years, as I photographed the remains of the Wallerscote sidings last year and it's all just wasteland now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9FEd Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks to everyone for all the photos, great to have a definitive track plan and some pictures to put it in context. Is anyone lurking out there with pictures of the connection between Gorstage sidings/mid-Cheshire line/WCML? Or of Hartford junction in general? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi everyone, Woops! After the prompt by 9FEd I realised that I had not posted the end of the map at Hartford Jct (LNW). Very sorry about that. Hope this answers your question. The layout at Hartford Jct and its main line connections was altered in (I think) c.1971/3 about the same time/in connection with the closure of Acton Bridge SB. I have the 'G' notice for the 1960 resignalling through here if that helps any? Also worth a look are Swifts 1950's layout plans Vol 9 published by the Signalling Record Society which shows the layout and signals before the Modernisation in 1960. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Here is the map. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Welch Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi everyone, Here is part of the resignalling notice I mentioned above. Hope it is of interest. I have one dated 1993 which I will put on here in the next day or two. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9FEd Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Harry - Many thanks for your excellent contributions again. The signalling diagram is very helpful, it really complements the plans you posted by confirming the track layout and helping me to understand how it operated. Am starting to wonder what sort of questions I can ask you to prompt further releases of similarly good material! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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