Unexpected 'melting' of bodyshells

[Bloodnok]

I've just been digging through my old stock, looking for stuff with layout potential amongst the assorted historic randomness.

 

During this process I've encountered several models with 'melted' bodies, appearing twisted / distorted. It's mostly Lima stuff (worst affected is one of their fictional 63ft Mk1 BGs, there's also a large brown bogie van of some description, and a class 33), but I've also found a Hornby VEA where roof is starting to go, so it's not purely a Lima problem.

 

I'm assuming the models that are already affected are basically write-offs - what I'm concerned about is how to stop any more going this way. Is it caused by heat, humidity, direct sunlight, what? They are currently stored in the back of the wardrobe, so there shouldn't be much in the way of light of any form (let alone direct sunlight) but it could get a bit warm in there. However, I've previously found them stacked in front of windows, having been "moved out of the way" from where I'd carefully put them out of direct light...

[Poor Old Bruce]

Sounds like heat distortion. I think Lima plastic was somewhat less resistant than other makers'.

 

Richard

[Sam Moss]

A friend of mine had a Hornby MK1 do this, left it in the boot of his car on what was not really a hot day and came back to find one side badly warped.

[Andy Y]

Back of a cupboard? It certainly could be heat, especially if you have any heating pipes running through any cavities in the wall. ? 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

And the 'stacked in a window' aspect is another potential, as I assume this means in boxes. Direct sunlight, and no free air circulation = same problem as in a car boot in summer.

[brixham]

I used to go the toyfair held on the platform at the Great Central Railway. After the dealers had lugged all their sales items down a flight of stairs, they had to risk the leaky roof if it rained. But if the sun shone, it was great. I once saw a dealer put out many Lima and Hornby boxed items on a flat platform trolley, later on in the day, the sun moved round and shone on the boxes, and many models were badly distorted. Yet it wasn't an excessivly hot day, just sunny.

And long exposure of models to sunlight could make the colours fade, so don't put your prized model on the windowledge!

 

Malcolm

[Guest jim s-w]

Back of a cupboard? It certainly could be heat, especially if you have any heating pipes running through any cavities in the wall. ? 

 

 

Yep, that would be my guess too. Time to do a scrapyard diorama then?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Simon_R]

Sadly Hornby plastic doesn'gt fade in the sunlight. I left an old 08 body on a south facing window sill (spare room) for over a year in the hope it would give me some free weathering with a genuine sun-bleached finish. Sadly it was no different despite the gloss on the window beneath it going yellow!

As for melting i remember my dad left a cassette on the rer shelf of the car one day when we were out for the day. It was sunny but not all that hot. The plastic had got so hot it had started to bubble!

[Huw Griffiths]

I know I've certainly seen some models emerge from storage with both sides slightly different colours - at the time, I just put it down to light or heat fading the paint - but these days I'm not sure.

 

 

I've started to become suspicious of packaging - especially that white expanded styrene foam that some companies used to love.

 

I've seen a number of old models on which the foam has been discoloured (traces of body or paint colour) - and others on which the white packing foam was trying to stick to the models.

 

Thankfully, I don't recall it doing a lot of damage - but it certainly made me think about what packaging materials should be in contact with models.

 

I don't know if this is related but, these days, a lot of manufacturers seem to be using different stuff to pack their models.

 

 

Only a thought - and I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to say I've got it wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

[Il Grifone]

Expanded polystyrene is notorious for interaction with other plastics. For this reason, electrical equipment now comes with its mains lead wrapped in polythene. The PVC insulation on the wiring in my loft has bits of the polystyrene insulation stuck to it. Luckily no serious damage but fibreglass (more nasty stuff) is ready to replace it.

 

The cardboard used for boxes also has a long term effect on the finish. I have heard advice to check Hornby Dublo stock that is still boxed for this. The EMU in particular.

 

I acquired some Lima stock cheap in Italy that had suffered from this. My M?¤rklin DSB MY runs on a chassis from a Lima MZ. (The spare body alone cost more than than the list price of the Lima!)

 

A Tri-ang transcontinental observation car I bought was also warped. I don't know if I didn't look hard enough before buying or whether the passenger foot well it travelled home in was too warm. Good job I only paid ??2!

 

And of course early Tri-ang and Farish plastic stock (also Trix and HD windows) is always curvy, due in part to the material , but also to the conditions of storage.

 

The red (carmine/crimson) of HD coaches is also very variable (as was the real thing) due to the effect of light fading the colour.

 

Varnish could possibly restore the colour to plastic. It worked wonders on a TV cabinet once. Lucky this one!

[Huw Griffiths]

Varnish could possibly restore the colour to plastic. It worked wonders on a TV cabinet once. Lucky this one!

 

I wonder if anyone's tried "Klear" / "Pledge with Future Shine" (or whatever they're calling it these days).

 

Whatever the score, I'd imagine museums have a job keeping dispaly layouts and dioramas looking presentable.

[andania 213]

I seem to remember that there was some sort of warning on Lima boxes to keep the models out of direct sunlight.

 

It was definitely good advice, as I remember a model and general hardware shop in Birkenhead putting some Mk1's in their east facing window around '78, 5 years later, still there, they were virtually horseshoe shaped

[Etched Pixels]

Another one to watch is bubble wrap - that will gradually damage paintwork if used for long long term storage and worse still your prize model doesn't come out with the damage looking faded or if you are lucky artfully weathered, it comes out looking like it caught the measles.

[Bloodnok]

Back of a cupboard? It certainly could be heat, especially if you have any heating pipes running through any cavities in the wall.

 

No heating pipes here - we don't 'do' central heating down under - it's not necessary. We get far too much heating from the sun as it is . And it's not an outside wall either, so it's not that...

 

I haven't noticed the wardrobe get particularly hot when I've delved into it, so I suspect 34theletterbetweenB&D is more on the money with:

 

And the 'stacked in a window' aspect is another potential, as I assume this means in boxes. Direct sunlight, and no free air circulation = same problem as in a car boot in summer.

 

Yep, original boxes, with cellophane windows, and in clear plastic crates. Somehow I think it's not an accident that it's all the ones that were on one particular side that are affected. The cellophane window has gone on one of the boxes too (the worst affected carriage).

 

I'm surprised at the VEA though, as that was unboxed, and on the other side of the crate to the rest of the affected models. Having said that, it's only a slight dip in the roof - it could have been like that for a while for all I know...

 

Time to do a scrapyard diorama then

 

The 33 has only gone on one side, so that's tempting - could be in the process of being cut (or repaired following a sideswipe accident?) The pallet van thingy is only slightly affected (a curl at the top edge of one side, and the roof is a bit iffy too) so could also be in the process of being cut. The 63ft Mk1 BG is way gone, and also a work of fiction... It might pass muster if I reduce it to frames only, but even then the Lima frame isn't known for being accurate...

 

OTOH, the chassis on the Lima 33 is still perfect - so if I were to discover another bodyshell somewhere I could return it to service. (And still have the twisted one in the scrapyard scene, albeit as body only!).

[Pennine MC]

I seem to remember that there was some sort of warning on Lima boxes to keep the models out of direct sunlight.

 

 

Just checked a couple I have - DO NOT DISPLAY IN BOX IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT OR EXPOSE TO EXCESSIVE HEAT. It also says it contains a precision scale model

[Pete Piszczek]

Just checked a couple I have - DO NOT DISPLAY IN BOX IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT OR EXPOSE TO EXCESSIVE HEAT. It also says it contains a precision scale model

 

The precision scale model part is assuming of course that you've followed the first part of the instructions.

[llamafish]

It's interesting what has been said about using Bubble Wrap. I use this for all of my unboxed models, have done for quite a while. What brings out the reactions between model and wrap, and is there anything I can do to prevent this?

 

 

Incidentally, I've noticed my Bachmann Toad has a dip in the roof, I realise now that it might have slightly melted, but I'm not sure how, it doesn't go near sunlight!

 

Also, it doesn't take long for models to distort. I put my old Hornby 08 bodyshell next to a small blow heater at full blast the other day, to see what effect it would have on it, purely because I was bored, and with the bodyshell immediately next to the heater, severe distortion had occurred in circa 30 seconds.

[Pete Piszczek]

It's interesting what has been said about using Bubble Wrap. I use this for all of my unboxed models, have done for quite a while. What brings out the reactions between model and wrap, and is there anything I can do to prevent this?

 

Many manufacturers put tissue between the models and the foam cradles. Over long periods of time, it is hard to predict what plastics in contact with one another will do. As the plastics start to deteriorate, they leave residue on adjacent surfaces.

 

FWIW, I store all my weathered or otherwise improved stock upright on their metal wheels in containers with cardboard sidewalls...

[Etched Pixels]

It's interesting what has been said about using Bubble Wrap. I use this for all of my unboxed models, have done for quite a while. What brings out the reactions between model and wrap, and is there anything I can do to prevent this?

 

Bubble wrap contains esters which eventually escape from the wrap onto the surface of the thing wrapped in it. They will in turn then sometimes damage the varnishes. Older varnishes for wooden items are the most vulnerable it seems.

 

If you get a change then make friends with your local museum people, they are an endless source of knowledge on stable and safe storage of objects (or there must be museum people on rmweb ?)

 

Alan

[llamafish]

Thanks for that, I was unaware of that, time to look for alternatives fairly sharp-ish then I think!

 

The only problem is I have a lot of objects, and limited space.

[petethemole]

(or there must be museum people on rmweb ?)

 

I'm not a museum person as such, but work closely with them. the finds we dig up have to be prepared and packed for deposition in museum stores. Sensitive materials a wrapped in acid free tissue. If necessary, fragile objects are protected from damage with foam packing which I believe to be acid free. However there is always issue between the foam and the object, presumably in case of solvents etc in the foam. Currently my own unboxed stock is in bubble wrap and doesn't seem to be suffering. However I'm thinking of using acid free tissue as an inner wrapping.

Pete

[llamafish]

I appreciate that we are hijacking the original theme of the thread...

 

I would guess that the paper and thin foam pieces supplied with models these days don't have any untoward effects on the model, else major manufacturers wouldn't pack their products with them? If not I might have to invest in some of the above, depending on price and ease of obtainability.

[petethemole]

Although the OP was about distortion probably caused by heat, the thread title could be seen to encompass more. The effect of long-term contact between the sort of plastic models are made of and other plastics richer in volatile solvents can lead to unexpected "melting". Does anyone remember the original plastic used for Airfix 1/76 tank tracks in the 60s and what happened to the tank wheels if you hadn't painted them? regarding acid free packaging I've just found acid free tissue at reasonable prices on Amazon. The archival quality foam may be Plastazote, which appears to have a range of applications; can't find prices quickly though, without going deeper into suppliers' websites. Hope this helps someone.

Pete.

[Bloodnok]

Although the OP was about distortion probably caused by heat, the thread title could be seen to encompass more.

 

... and don't worry about discussing more, I'm sure that many people will be interested to hear any/all advice about storing models - I certainly am