Michael Delamar Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi chaps. Always dangerous building a loco kit without knowing which loco your doing. Its never really bothered me what particular loco I was doing as I thought more research info would come about but it hasnt as much as id like so far and Ive waited ages while researching before asking. now. what Id like to know is what split headcode fitted locos, had the centre headlamp bracket fitted to the top of the front door rather than lower down AND ALSO did not have headboard clips fitted. period being the 60s with small yellow panel. reason, Ive built my loco with the higher centre headlamp bracket, and dont really want to make headboard clips for it as its been painted now. the only loco I can find in pics is D339, however Ive seen others in books and class 40 society magazines but these are usually unidentified ilocos in the photos. cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Here are a couple of items copied from a list I made on 40 details, in TOP's era though. Might help narrowing a loco down. Split headcode locos have two small brackets on the centre door in line with the bottom of the headcode boxes except the following 40125 No brackets fitted 40126 No brackets fitted 40129 No brackets fitted 40132 Located at top of door just below lamp bracket 40139 No brackets fitted, brackets where fitted when the centre door No2 end was made flush <H2 style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0cm 1.3pt 0pt 0cm" align=center>Position Of Split Headcode Dots and Centre Lamp Bracket</H2> Dots Lamp Brackets 40125 Inside Top 40126 Inside Middle 40127 Inside Middle 40128 Inside Middle 40129 Inside Middle Headcode Dot in Centre Drivers Side No1 End 40130 Centre Middle 40131 Outside Top 40132 Outside Top 40133 Inside Top Removed on flush end 40134 Centre Top Retained on flush end 40135 Inside Top 40136 Inside Top 40137 Centre Top 40138 Inside Top 40139 Centre Top Retained on flush end 40140 Outside Middle 40141 Inside Top 40142 Inside Top 40143 Inside Middle 40144 Inside Top Removed on flush end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 That last list on were the domino was and the centre lamp bracket seems to have come close together instead of spaced out. Hope you can still de-cypher it ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 brilliant Brian, thanks so that narrows it down to D325 D332 and D339 if I havent missed any. now whilst theres lots of shots of these in BR blue or green with full yellow ends, shots of them when with small yellow panel seem very rare, can anyone help. what im looking for is good quality shots usefull for weathering etc, a very big ask I know. cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Mike a quick trawl through some of my references have found the following in varoius times of livery. 325 GFY upper lamp bracket, no door clips 326-330 lower lamp bracket 331 Green upper lamp bracket, no door clips, GFY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted 332 BFY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted 333-336 GFY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted 337 Green upper lamp bracket, no door clips, GSY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted, GFY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted 338 ?? 339 GFY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted 340 GSY headlamp bracket not sure, door clips fitted, GFY lower lamp bracket, door clips fitted 341 ?? 342 BFY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted 343 GSY headlamp bracket not sure, door clips fitted, GFY lower lamp bracket, door clips fitted 344 GSY upper lamp bracket, door clips fitted Trevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 brilliant, thanks Trevor and Brian Im trying to now see if I can work out what locos I have shots of but are unidentified, another detail difference even between the 3 with a high lamp bracket and no headboard brackets is the position of warning flashes, even on the ones weve narrowed down some locos have the warning flashes above the heacode box (which I thing looks better) and some under headcode box. also Im guessing there should be 2 steam style shed plates fitted do the driver sides of each cab? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 An edit to my earlier post 339 had door clips fitted at least to No1 end when in GFY livery. Trevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi Mike, a picture of D332 appears in "The Class 40s At Work" by John Vaughan. Dated July 1965 it shows the loco in Green/Small Yellow Panel condition, however on No 1 end there can be seen the small yellow blanking plate fitted when used for powering the Royal Train (its fitted to the right hand side door). Not sure if the protocol was to fit the same at each end when used thus (I think it was done to allow communication with the driver using a hard wired link) If you can track down Issue 179 of MLI then there are a number of useful shots for weathering. Also there is a picture of D338 which would seem to match your requirements for no headboard clips/bracket location. strange that D332 had the headboard brackets fitted higher than normal where the higher centre lamp brackets modified lower? like steam locos that had the top lamp bracket moved to the side because of overhead electrification. whats MLI Steve? Ill get the class 40s at work too, I thought I had most class 40 books. cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 An edit to my earlier post 339 had door clips fitted at least to No1 end when in GFY livery. Trevor. thats strange,I wonder if they where fitted when the full yellow ends where painted, as I have a shot of it without them, thing is, its hard getting a shot of both ends at a similar time. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 thats strange,I wonder if they where fitted when the full yellow ends where painted, as I have a shot of it without them, thing is, its hard getting a shot of both ends at a similar time. Mike Hi Mike, I dont think they were fitted from new and most of them were fitted at a later date, possibly mid to late 60's. So I would expect quite a few when in GSY had not been fitted by that time. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 that makes sense Trevor, seen shots of locos without yellow panels without them and later with them, dont think Ive seen a shot of the headbord clips actually being used. is a bit of a mindfield just ordered the class 40s at work, got a cheap copy on amazon, thought I had most class 40 books, I have seen that one but must have forgotten about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 great stuff Steve thanks. dont know how i missed that one but Ive ordered a copy of 179 from british railway books, looking forward to getting it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinsley-toton Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ive built my loco with the higher centre headlamp bracket, and dont really want to make headboard clips for it as its been painted now. Hi I'm building 40143 with the mid mounted bracket and clips but i'm really stuck now as I dont know how to make the 4 clips needed. Anyone have any ideas. Ive contacted JLTRT but they don't produce them Thanks T-T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ive built my loco with the higher centre headlamp bracket, and dont really want to make headboard clips for it as its been painted now. Hi I'm building 40143 with the mid mounted bracket and clips but i'm really stuck now as I dont know how to make the 4 clips needed. Anyone have any ideas. Ive contacted JLTRT but they don't produce them Thanks T-T I made mine using a small brass U channel. Use a triangular file and make V cuts into it one after the other so it looks like ^^^^^^^ along the top. Then carefully solder a piece of .4 wire across the top of the first one trying to leave a hole under it. Then cut it off the row of little mountain tops and clean up with a file. Clear as mud I hope Worked for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 tinsley toton, this was the reason I never did them, too lazy to do them:) , plus I think they look slightly better without. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Ive just found a great pic in an Ivo Peters Steam book of all things of D325 while looking for something else, everything looks great, one of the best shots Ive seen of one of the 3 locos I could model, only thing is it had the warning flashes below the headcode boxes, now that in itself is no problem, but on the prototype D325, they where not level horizontally, they where quite a way out too, I dont mind doing that on the model but its going to look like Ive not levelled them up properly, this is a perfect example of why you need a good shot of the real loco your doing, also the right hand lamp braket looks bent, again if I do that on the model itll look like shoddy modelling Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 interestingly, when it recieved full yellow ends, it had 4 warning flashes on the nose http://class40s.foto...t/p1293126.html Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 this is becoming more interesting, few things..... one of the shots I have of an unidentified loco that fits the bill, is an excellent head on shot (page 24/25 of "50 years of the class 40 1950s & 60s by the cfps) of a 40 which has the same wonky warning flashes at the no1 end,it is on train 1S75 on 19th feb 1966, the Ivo Peters shot shows I found of D325 on 1S61 is 14th sep 1966, same destination, so Im going to say the unidentified loco in the cfps book is D325. now, I havent got a shot of D325 at the no 2 end when it had half yellows, there is a nice shot in diesels in depth of 325 in 1969 when it recieved full yellows, but it has the warning flashes on top of the boxes, Im wondering did D325 have the warning flashes top of the boxes at no 2 end? and as we know below the boxes at the no 1 end. I need to find a shot of her no 2 end when she had half yellows to be sure they wernt changed when she recieved full yellows. these 2 shots I have are of the period Im modelling around 1966 so theyre perfect, but on the second man side below the number it looks like its lost a shed code plate, and I cant see if it has a shedcode plate at the no 2 driver end as I havent a decent shot of that end. was there a Western lines shedcode plate? http://www.steamsheds.co.uk/locolookup.php or would the camden 1B shedcode plate been taken off and not replaced in 1966? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushVeteran Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 This is the only shot I have of a green split headcode 40. However I do have several b&w shots, I'll have to sort them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 hmmm found a pic of d325 in 1967 no 2 end with small yellow panel and it has 4 warning flashes http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0720010333017 a shot of her in 1961 before she recieved the yellow panel it only had warning flashes below the boxes... http://www.class40s.photos.gb.net/p59796834.html Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 This is the only shot I have of a green split headcode 40. However I do have several b&w shots, I'll have to sort them out. look forward to seeing them, at the moment I think Im doing D325, out of the 3 we narrowed down, however Id love to see any of your black n white 40 shots, regardless of headbox variety. your colour shots regardless of front end of other 40s are extremley useful for weathering. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 just to say I got the issue of MLI and it looks a fantastic read, cheers to Steve for recommending it, one tiny point, on page 28 there is a nice shot of (what it says is d325 in 1963 too far away to be sure) but it cant be d325 as the loco in the pic has the headboard clips at no 2 end and we know it didnt have them Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 hooray finally found a shot. in the MLI mag there is an advert for this site http://www.rail-online.co.uk/ plenty of early diesel shots to download, you get to download your first image free theres a great shot of D325 in 1964 near Wigan, no 2 end, has the warning flashes below the boxes, not the 4 it later had, no headboard clips too, and can see it had the shedplate at the no 1 drivers side Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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