vectispete Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Which was my main objective! At a normal viewing distance the eye will say "ah, an SECR coach". The eye, looking a bit more closely may of course also say "too many compartments and too small luggage compartment" but we all set out own modelling standards, and I am always happy when I manage to reach mine (whilst also aspiring to, and admiring, the levels above me). Thank you for your kind comments :-) Chris Hi This is a picture of some of my EM gauge SECR and LBSCR 4mm coaches. I am miles away from getting to Chris's excellent layout. 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 They look quite marvellous! Chris rake2.JPGrake2.JPG Hi This is a picture of some of my EM gauge SECR and LBSCR 4mm coaches. I am miles away from getting to Chris's excellent layou Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted April 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 15, 2017 Hi This is a picture of some of my EM gauge SECR and LBSCR 4mm coaches. I am miles away from getting to Chris's excellent layout. They look excellent! How did you do them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectispete Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 They look excellent! How did you do them? The LBSCR are ex Alan Gibson sides with scratch built ends and roof. The SECR are mainly scratchbuilt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) I thought I would break cover to report on my latest IOW coach exploits. The one I'm showing here follows a number of exploratory and ultimately rejected attempts based on Ratio Midland coach sides. It is intended to be more prototypical and is based on Bill Bedford's brass sides for a diagram 377 saloon composite. this one numbered S6364. It will be running on my Ventnor West layout and has therefore been finished in the malachite green I am assuming it would have carried between 1949 and 1952. It has BR style lettering which could be wrong as it may not have received that until it was painted red. In the pictures you can see 1) The Bill Bedford brass sides (one has been glazed the other not yet); 2) The main body shell (floor, chassis, partitions and ends) which were custom cut from 1mm Rowmark by York Modelmaking from CAD files originated by me. Two drawbacks of this approach are that the footboards are a bit thick and the material is harder to stick than styrene sheet; 3) The false roof, again custom cut, this time from 2mm ply. It will be clad in thin brass sheet which I have had custom etched to the precise dimensions, with half etched lines to aid the bending; 4) Roxey Mouldings SECR heavy Fox bogies. After one failed attempt I managed to master the art of soldering the footboards to the whitemetal bump stops. Not the easiest modelling job I have ever done! Still to do are finishing the roof, couplings (Kadees which I use for fixed rake coupling), underframe, end details, and weathering. Chris G Alton Hants Edited June 15, 2017 by ChrisG 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted July 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2017 Chris, I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of malachite coaches with BR style lettering on the island, as well as Sxxxx numbers in sunshine lettering, and full 'Southern' lettering well after nationalisation... Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 The very first delivery of SECR carriages were in full Southern Sunshine livery. The subsequent batches were as the model is being painted; in Malachite green with Sunshine numbers with the S prefix, no "Southern" or 3 markings on third class. (Note: S suffix not used). Carriages already on the island were modified over time by painting out the "Southern" and adding an S prefix to the number, some of these were cut from transfers for "Southern" and were oversize for the numerals. Full repaints of course were in the current style when painted. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 To which might be added the comment that the Island doesn't seem to have made any attempt to keep carriages in green, as unquestionably happened (at least with corridor stock) on the mainland, so red became pretty standard by 1956/7 - when green not only reappeared but became standard again remarkably quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted July 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2017 To which might be added the comment that the Island doesn't seem to have made any attempt to keep carriages in green, as unquestionably happened (at least with corridor stock) on the mainland, so red became pretty standard by 1956/7 - when green not only reappeared but became standard again remarkably quickly. I've noticed that too - did Newport repaint coaches more often than usual? I think the standard on the mainland was 10 years between full repaints, but if that was the case then most of the SECR stock, having been freshly painted in '49, would not need another repaint until '59, so would have gone straight from Malachite to BR green - but photographic evidence shows plenty of them in Crimson... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 My understanding, which came from someone who worked at Lancing, was that the SR standard was revarnish after 3 years, repaint after 6, although this was to some extent governed by condition, and stock that saw little use, the long-sets for example (if any of their constituent vehicles lasted long enough), almost certainly went longer between repaints. Stock that was stored sufficiently close to the shore line to be affected by salt spray carryover (and that might apply almost anywhere on the IoW) probably needed repainting (or patch painting) more frequently however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Thanks, all these comments have been helpful and certainly encouraging because it seems that almost any combination of livery and lettering was possible. The narrow window I have in which to run BR stock to Ventnor West (my exhibition layout project) is 1948 (Nationalisation) -1952 (when it closed). This makes Malachite green with Southern numbering with BR prefixes the most likely combination. What one really needs is good dated photos of the relevant stock, but unless someone has bothered to ensure the lettering is in view it is going to be guesswork as to which vehicles are involved, except of course the push pull sets. In any event, recent attention has been on the layout itself so the coach in question has made no progress! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted July 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2017 I've certainly seen colour photos of the pull-push set at VW in crimson - there's one on the cover of one of the issues of 'Southern Way' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) I've certainly seen colour photos of the pull-push set at VW in crimson - there's one on the cover of one of the issues of 'Southern Way' Set 503 was definitely in crimson by May 1952 when the late Pat Garland took a number of photographs on the line. The carriages were unlined and the paintwork looked fresh so they had probably been repainted during the preceding winter. Edited July 10, 2017 by bécasse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I've certainly seen colour photos of the pull-push set at VW in crimson - there's one on the cover of one of the issues of 'Southern Way' Brilliant. I found the photo in an online search. Click the image to enlarge. http://www.crecy.co.uk/southern-way-issue-no.-10 Thanks Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Here's the latest on my proof of concept SECR coach build. As a reminder, the body shell and false roof are constructed from a custom laser cut kit which I designed and had produced by York Modelmaking. The sides are Bill Bedford's. Bogies (not in picture) are Roxey heavyweight Fox. So still to do are roof (custom brass etch to be folded over the wooden former, buffers (Markits spring SECR clipped buffers), and underframe (not yet to be decided how to do it). Seats, which can't be seen are Ratio. This was the most nerve-wracking phase so far - attaching the brass sides to the plastic body shell. I used Evostik in impact mode - which gives a very small opportunity of a second chance if it doesn't go on quite right. The glazing was stuck with Superglue using a special odourless formula from Deluxe Materials which takes longer to set but doesn't cause misting or crazing of the glazing. The livery is SR Malachite with BR numbering as might well have been seen in the early years of Nationalisation. Chris Chris 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 The IWSR re-varnishes its coaches about every 3 years. One side fades quicker than the other due to the railway running east-west. The south sides fade very quickly comparatively. No doubt Pete (IWCR) can enlighten us a bit more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 No the IWSR tries to varnish its coaches annually. Going for two years on lesser used stock which normally lives indoors. Three years would be way to long and the paint would be going downhill fast by then likely resulting in a major touch up our full repaint. Fading is not a problem, the paint & varnish actually darkens over time. If thoroughly cleaned and revarnished annually the paintwork can be good for upwards of 10 years. The SR on the Island revarnished around every two years with a full repaint at five years. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) Here's a shot which shows the completed SECR composite saloon coach in Malachite Green at Ventnor West. I was treating this model as a proof of concept, and so it is not fully detailed (for example, it has no door hinges). Nevertheless, I am pretty pleased with it. Construction as follows:- Bogies - Roxey Mouldings Fox Heavyweight bogies; Roof - custom laser cut plywood former (York Modelmaking) covered with styrene strip (for planking) and painted with acrylic paint and liberal use of talcum powder; Body sides - Bill Bedford etches; Body skeleton - custom laser cut from black Rowmark by York Modelmaking Chris ] Edited November 6, 2017 by ChrisG 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyrman Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Nice job. Some Isle of Wight coaches in the 50's did receive the crimson with waist stripe, but only a few. Don't think they carried it for long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Correct, initial repaints in Red did include the lining both at waist & above windows. This however did not really work, in particular the above window lining being very difficult to apply with any consistency on the mouldings and fitting it below door ventilator cowls. Even steel sheeted vehicles had the upper sheeting over & down to the moulding over the window hence no easier. Waist lining was better but still up & down over the mouldings if present. Soon dropped as impractical. A livery which looks good on flush sided vehicles, not for a fully panneled one. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I don't think that I have ever seen a photo of a non-corridor Southern carriage with the upper lining so I suspect that it was dropped (for the very practical reasons outlined above) very quickly. The waist lining was applied for a much longer period and it isn't too difficult to find photos of vehicles so adorned. The settled practice for vehicles with mouldings at waist level seems to have been to apply it through the exact centreline of the mouldings unless any of the doors carried legends (typically "GUARD") when it was applied immediately under the mouldings. Motor trains used the under the mouldings position for both carriages, presumably to neaten the appearance but I am not sure that this rule was also applied to non-motor sets. There were very few examples of red Southern carriages with waist lining around in the mid-1950s so I suspect that any applied lining was painted out when vehicles came in for their mid-term revarnishing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) Not a lot of recent action on this topic, but I have recently finished a pair of SECR brakes, one of which is pictured here. The basis of the model is a laser cut kit which I commissioned from York Model Making, plus a laser cut wooden false roof over which I laid a custom etched flexible roof. The sides are by Bill Bedford, and are very reasonably priced. Bogies are from Roxey Mouldings (Fox Heavyweight), and the buffers are from Markits, and absolute beauties they are. The other exciting news is the release of a set of etched kits for three SECR IOW coaches from Worsley Works (Allen Doherty). I haven't started on these yet, but the raw etches look good. You can find the information here for ordering a set of etches from Allen:- http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_Southern_Pregroup_SECR.htm Chris Alton Hants Edited September 3, 2018 by ChrisG 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 The SECR Brake thirds were originally 7 comp birdcage brakes. These were converted to 4 compartments with no birdcage. The section of extended brake van should be flush sheeted, these were never fully paneled. The brake end is correct with the adjacent paneled sections each side of the doors, the luggage doors are correct however the area to the left of these should be flush sheeted and all the way to the first compartment door. Later of course other areas had flat sheeting fitted during repairs, this was normally over the mouldings. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 The SECR Brake thirds were originally 7 comp birdcage brakes. These were converted to 4 compartments with no birdcage. The section of extended brake van should be flush sheeted, these were never fully paneled. The brake end is correct with the adjacent paneled sections each side of the doors, the luggage doors are correct however the area to the left of these should be flush sheeted and all the way to the first compartment door. Later of course other areas had flat sheeting fitted during repairs, this was normally over the mouldings. Pete At the time I bought the materials to make this coach, the Bill Bedford sides were all that was available. Now, Worsley Works have a kit in their catalogue, which has the correct pattern of sheeting and panelling, as well as half etching to allow the representation of the rivetting on the flush panelled sections. Allen has based his etches on the drawings of IOW modifcations in the Maycock and Reed book. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Hello Good to know these etches have been corrected, or are they all new items? The flush panel sections are screwed on with raised head countersunk screws, these are in holes which are countersunk into the timber with the steel panel punched into the countersunk, the result is a slightly raised head which has the appearance of a rivet. A minor detail: The waist panel just inboard of the Guards doors is made of slate, this was unpainted on vehicles when first transferred but certainly painted over by BR green days. Presumably this was for chalking on destinations for newspapers etc. I will certainly be interested in 2mm versions if/when available. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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