SR Insulated van colour

[Jack P]

Evening/Morning guys,

I'm part way through building a SR insulated van, the instructions tell me I need a cream colour, however, my records tell me that I infact need a 'Light Stone' colour - which is also used on ex LSWR refrigerated stock. I have currently mixed a colour similar to that of Baileys Irish Cream (tastes way worse though);


However, I'm under the impression I need a colour similar to this, LSWR colour;

 Reduced: 88% of original size [ 1024 x 724 ] - Click to view full image

BUT, this is the LNER 'light stone' colour;


So i'm wondering if perhaps the SR 'light stone' colour is more similar to that of the LNER version, or to the LSWR colour, or if i'm close with my baileys-esq colour. I know Precision paints do a light stone, but I can't find any colour samples of it. I have been basing my current colour off the cream colour represented by the picture on the box, but they have been slightly off to me with other colours, so any clarification would we appreciated.

Jack

 

[coachmann]

According to the original HMRS Livery Register No.3 covering LSWR and SR liveries, the glossy colour patch at the back of the book shows the SR wagon stone (also LSWR buildings stone) to be slightly paler than LSWR coach salmon. You are on the right track with Baileys Irish Cream!

 

I ended up using my cellulose on SR Insulated vans after I ceased doing the LSW coach livery, as it is one of those colours that has a wide acceptable spectrum.

Edited May 8, 2013 by coachmann

[SRman]

I agree: the light LSWR salmon colour (or, as it is now called, Baileys SR Cream!) looks about right from pictures I have seen.

[Jack P]

According to the original HMRS Livery Register No.3 covering LSWR and SR liveries, the glossy colour patch at the back of the book shows the SR wagon stone (also LSWR buildings stone) to be slightly paler than LSWR coach salmon. You are on the right track with Baileys Irish Cream!

 

I ended up using my cellulose on SR Insulated vans after I ceased doing the LSW coach livery, as it is one of those colours that has a wide acceptable spectrum.

 

I agree: the light LSWR salmon colour (or, as it is now called, Baileys SR Cream!) looks about right from pictures I have seen.

 

SRman; Baileys SR cream it is! I have added a tiny drop of red to give it a slightly richer colour, and I think it's okay, we will see though, as colours always seem to differ slightly when airbrushed. Thank you for the help. Coachman: is the SR 'light stone' the same colour used on the buildings by chance?

 

Jack

[coachmann]

SRman; Baileys SR cream it is! I have added a tiny drop of red to give it a slightly richer colour, and I think it's okay, we will see though, as colours always seem to differ slightly when airbrushed. Thank you for the help. Coachman: is the SR 'light stone' the same colour used on the buildings by chance?

 

Jack

No. According to the aforementioned HMRS Register, the SR building stone is shown to be less warm and more mushroom in colour, however, in brackets it says also wagon stone....! As in other HMRS livery books, there is a conflinct of information.

[Jack P]

No. According to the aforementioned HMRS Register, the SR building stone is shown to be less warm and more mushroom in colour, however, in brackets it says also wagon stone....! As in other HMRS livery books, there is a conflinct of information.

 

Ho ho! Well I shant bother with the building colour yet. Thank you very much for your help with the wagon colour though Coachman!

 

Jack

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jack P

[SRman]

5 hours ago, boeing7572t6 said:

Hello,

Resurrecting this thread, I have a SR refrigerated van to paint. My chosen era is BR 50s so I’m going to paint the van light stone/ Baileys Cream. How was the lettering applied, black on Baileys or white on black patches?

Any thoughts out there or better a link to a picture.

HNY

Bob

 

I'll have to check, if someone doesn't beat me to it, but I thought the lettering was red on the stone colour. Don't quote me on that yet, though.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, boeing7572t6 said:

Hello,

Resurrecting this thread, I have a SR refrigerated van to paint. My chosen era is BR 50s so I’m going to paint the van light stone/ Baileys Cream. How was the lettering applied, black on Baileys or white on black patches?

Any thoughts out there or better a link to a picture.

HNY

Bob

The Southern livery (pre-1941) was stone with venetian red lettering. In An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Volume 4, mention is made of a 1941 livery of red oxide with lemon lettering, but there are no photographs. On the other hand, there is a 1948 Ashford Works photograph of dia. 1477 no. S50561 with a pale livery and dark letters, which the authors believe to be stone with venetian red lettering. However, it is very pale and I wonder if it white with black lettering, which I read somewhere was an early BR livery. Early BR wagon liveries aren't something I know much about.

[Oldddudders]

Ray Chorley and Alan Blackburn are joint authors of the volume Jeremy C quotes, together with Gerry Bixley and Mike King. It is a worthwhile book - indeed my only wagon book because it covers so many key SR types.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

The photograph is from Mike King's collection, and I don't think I am allowed to photograph or scan it and post it here.

 

The book's authors are doubtless far better than I am at working out colours from black and white photographs, but it does not look conclusively stone and red lettering to me.

 

The wheel rims and brake handle are painted white, and the white of the wheel rims certainly looks brighter than the body, but not by much, and it might just be that they look whiter because they are surrounded by so much black. There looks to be far less difference between the body and the brake handle.

 

A 1931 picture of 50538 (same diagram) in stone with red lettering is far darker and has far less contrast between the lettering and the body colour. This picture has white letter "N"s painted on the bodyside in the bottom corners, so the body colour is unmistakable.

 

Two diagram 1486 photographs are similar in shade to the 1931 picture; one of these has white wheel rims, but both have dark letter "N"s.

 

Two diagram 1476 photographs (taken in 1928 and 1936) are perhaps more relevent. The 1928 picture is similar to the 1931 picture in shade, and has white letter "N"s. The other is far closer to the 1948 picture and has white wheel rims, dark letter "N"s and a high contrast between the body colour and the lettering, but from the text I would assume it is in stone with venetian red letting.

 

For me, the most curious photograph is on page 79, which shows a very pale banana van (dia. 1479) with dark lettering in the 1936 style, next to an unidentified van (looks to be a dia. 1478 banana van) having a much darker body colour but also with dark lettering in the early, pre-1936 style. Could the first van be in white and the second one be in stone, or was there considerable variation in the shade of stone, or did the stone weather to a much darker shade?

 

I have just noticed that the 1948 photograph looks almost identical to the Peco gauge 0 model. The photograph has a small letter S prefix, the same height as the number, and also has WB 9'-0" at the bottom right hand corner, placed a line higher than the tare weight, and further to the right: https://peco-uk.com/products/southern-railway-insulated-van

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Jeremy C

[Jeremy Cumberland]

6 minutes ago, boeing7572t6 said:

Thanks Jeremy, I fully appreciate the sensitivities regarding copyright. I’ve just realised we have an unfinished conversation regarding Barclay tanks. Check your PMs

 Bob

Different Jeremy, I think. I did not realise when I registered that I have a name almost identical to another user. I think I'll get a mod to change mine to avoid confusion (if only I could think of something suitable).

[hmrspaul]

20 hours ago, boeing7572t6 said:

Hello,

Resurrecting this thread, I have a SR refrigerated van to paint. My chosen era is BR 50s so I’m going to paint the van light stone/ Baileys Cream. How was the lettering applied, black on Baileys or white on black patches?

Any thoughts out there or better a link to a picture.

HNY

Bob

The pre 1964 instructions for Insulated wagons and containers was to use white laquer with black lettering and frame. At Nationalisation the committee responsible agreed that in the absence of white being available stone could continue to be used I would assume with black lettering. 

 

Paul