Help - How easy is it to convert N Gauge Steam to DCC

[paulprice]

I need help, maybe it's time I converted to DCC I have seen some very impressive benefits to this in 00 but I model in N-gauuge and I have over 50 locomotives that would eventially need to be converted.

 

How easy is this and where do I start, and will i need a new mortgage?

[Nigelcliffe]

How hard ?  

Depends on the loco.

Some are a doddle.  They may have decoder sockets, so it's plug and play.  Or there may be an empty tender for the decoder which is really simple.

Some are extremely difficult (solid chassis, so filing of space to create a decoder pocket is necessary).  

Some older chassis designs, notably Farish, require isolation of the brush gear from the pickups.  There are commercial devices to achieve this isolation.

 

How much ?  Depends on your view of acceptable running.  

I'm a fussy person, so tend to fit only Zimo or CT decoders as their control of small motors is much better than other makers.  They are around £30-33 each.  CT also make the smallest decoders you can get, much smaller than anything else on sale.  

There are cheaper decoders around, such as the Bachmann badged small decoder, Digitrax, etc..  Those should be below £20 each.     

If you wanted to buy decoders in bulk you'd probably get some sort of discount if you approached a retailer.  Some of the smaller specialist retailers may have more scope on bulk discounts. 

 

 

Where to start -

First and REALLY IMPORTANT.  Carry out a critical appraisal of each locomotive before converting.  Does it run perfectly on DC ?  If not, this needs fixing, or the loco should be retired to a display cabinet.  Only convert a loco which passes a "runs perfectly on DC" test.  DCC cannot do magic, it cannot fix a badly running locomotive with pickup problems.  

 

If any of your locos have decoder sockets (some newer designs have them), start with one of those - open up loco, remove "blanking plate", plug in new decoder, reassemble and program with a new address.  
If no sockets, then pick a loco with bags of interior space (old Farish tender loco for example is fairly easy, just got to isolate the brush gear on the bottom of the chassis with a "Digihat" or similar device).   If you are "hard wiring" then you may also need some heat-shrink tubing to insulate the finished joins.   Once you're used to soldering small wires in small spaces then consider locos where filing/grinding bits away from the chassis to create space is necessary.

 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have only looked at N gauge steam on behalf of a friend with DCC conversion in view. Now I happily chop OO around with a will, but what I could see in N were problems, and especially in small tank locos. While generally endorsing Nigel's advice above, let me offer a contrarian view on what to attempt a DCC fit on, with an explanation.

 

A steam layout has to have a small tank loco - one at least, often many more - so conversion of one of these is a necessity. It is also likely to be one of the cheapest locos, so least lost if it goes belly up. So, pick whatever is the typical small tank loco that is a must have for your modelling, and see if you can make that work. The bind I could see was that by the time a sufficient void was created to take even the miniest of mini decoders in the neatest of hardwired installs, an already small loco would lose so much ballast weight as to make both current collection and traction flaky. There's always 'someone' who can do it 'no problem'; but unless you have such a person as a willing subcontractor, then it does come down to what you can achieve for yourself.

[Nigelcliffe]

34th's  comments are a useful observation.   Perhaps the "small tank loco" should come soon after doing a couple of easy ones, though knowing what is going to be really difficult only comes with experience.   (Union Mills tender locos are often need more thinking and hacking than some small tank locos).  

 

The amount of hacking to get a decoder inside can be quite small now, so long as you are able to think through the problem and are using a genuinely small decoder.    A CT DCX76z is 6.9 x 6.1 x 1.7mm.   The wires hanging out of the end of it occupy considerably more space than the decoder !

 

 

- Nigel

[paulprice]

Thanks for the advise, I get the feeling this is not going to be easy, or a cheap process either I suppose its the cost of progress....

 

I suppose the easy option would be to wait until all my current locomotives are replaced by farish with brand spanking new dcc ready models. The problem is that I have spet quite a long time detailing and building up my current fleet. The majority of this time was spent ensuring that the chassis run sweet as a nut, even if this has meant multiple rebuilds and adjustments.

 

So even if I just look at the LMS side of my stud I will still need to chip 30 plus loco;s and in the back of my mind a little devil is saying at £30 per chip I could spend £900 on chips and still have only 30 loco's or spend £900 on 10 new additions to the fleet

 

Soneone please tell me Im not the only one who thinks like this

[Nigelcliffe]

Thanks for the advise, I get the feeling this is not going to be easy, or a cheap process either I suppose its the cost of progress....

 

 

"price of progress" - perhaps that is the wrong way to think ?    I'd ask what benefits DCC brings which will be useful to your own layout and your own operating.   If you can't list anything which is useful to you, then its not progress for you. 

 

There are dozens of benefits claimed for DCC; I could list lots of them, but for most people only a subset might apply to their way of running a model railway.   

 

 

I suppose the easy option would be to wait until all my current locomotives are replaced by farish with brand spanking new dcc ready models. The problem is that I have spet quite a long time detailing and building up my current fleet. The majority of this time was spent ensuring that the chassis run sweet as a nut, even if this has meant multiple rebuilds and adjustments.

 

If those are older Farish locos which have been carefully adjusted to run superbly, then DCC control can work very well.  I've fitted chips into carefully adjusted old Farish mechanisms and the end results are stunningly good,  a loco which will move imperceptibly from stationary to moving, giving an impression of weighing hundreds of tons;  no sudden jerk from "stop" to "5mph" with nothing below 5mph. 

 

 

 

So even if I just look at the LMS side of my stud I will still need to chip 30 plus loco;s and in the back of my mind a little devil is saying at £30 per chip I could spend £900 on chips and still have only 30 loco's or spend £900 on 10 new additions to the fleet

 

Soneone please tell me Im not the only one who thinks like this

 

 

I doubt you are alone.  Only you can decide whether you think DCC offers benefits which your DC control cannot deliver.   On the other side of "why spend £30 per loco", the answer is "did you expect it to be free ?"    For many people, running on DC makes sense.

 

 

-  Nigel

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The joy of DCC. (My experience, strictly in OO.)

The constant track power always at 'full output' is a major contributor to starting reliability: everything starts first time. The reliability is so good, that the moment you see any deviation from a  smooth creep in or out of motion or a failure to run smoothly at low speed, you know to investigate the loco. Typically find that it has picked up a gob of dirt (still trying to track down the source, but that's another story).

The adjustment capability for each motor and chassis. Consistent performance on track, from a wide variety of mechanisms. By matching poor mechanisms with (more expensive) decoders that offer a lot of adjustment they can be made to match better mechanism's performance. Once you have some experience you may find that a good cheaper decoder is all that is required for the intrinsically more refined mechanisms.

Large values in CV's 3 and 4 meaning that driving has to be performed with proper regard for the high inertia that is very effectively simulated.

The ability to perform any manoeuvre with multiple traction units with no need for isolating sections. I still get a kick out of parking locos buffer to buffer on any length of track. (Simple soul basically.)

 

... The majority of this time was spent ensuring that the chassis run sweet as a nut, even if this has meant multiple rebuilds and adjustments...

Since this is your approach, then my guess is that DCC installs will not be overmuch trouble. An attitude of being prepared to take it apart to make it work better means you are most of the way there on the typical work that will be required.

[paulprice]

I kind of like the idea of being able to double head and even bank trains. though I dont think there would be any need for this for a layout set around the flat areas of lancashire???

 

I must admit some of the better dcc controlled layouts have really impressed me even the more simple ones. I was thinking of experimenting in a cheap way to see if I can get on with it. Maybe buy a cheap dcc trainset and see if I can convert a couple of locomotives.

 

Im off to the model show in Bakewell this weekend so I may find something there?