highpeak Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Railway Age has an article about crude oil volatility and some questions about the Canadian investigation: http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/regulatory/controversy-surrounds-lac-megantic-crude-oil-test-data.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Railway Age has an article about crude oil volatility and some questions about the Canadian investigation: http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/regulatory/controversy-surrounds-lac-megantic-crude-oil-test-data.html Very difficult to say anything about that article without getting into politics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Just because its explodes doesn't make it "explosive". Gasoline expolodes, ethanol will explode, LPG, butane, propane, ethylene oxide will explode, etc., etc. Regardless of the volatility, its still a flammable liquid. If it was a unit train of gasoline it would have been more volatile and still have been placarded flammable. Even if it was placarded an "explosive" it wouldn't have changed the rules or requirements governing the way the train was handled (it would change the paperwork, documentation and interchange requirements, at least in the US). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2014 Can't they mix something with it that reduces the likelihood of an explosion, and separate that stuff out of it when it reaches its destination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2014 Can't they mix something with it that reduces the likelihood of an explosion, and separate that stuff out of it when it reaches its destination? Jet fuel now has an additive that suppresses any tendency to explode. Airliners burn such modified fuel with no adverse effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2014 Jet fuel now has an additive that suppresses any tendency to explode. Airliners burn such modified fuel with no adverse effects.Yes, but we're talking about crude here, and I guess the additive might affect any refining process it has to go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Some updates on recent developments: An interesting article on MM&A's safety record as regards securing trains at [/url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mm-a-railway-had-repeated-brake-violations-on-the-books-1.2534131[/url] Meanwhile the Portland Press Herald reported that lawsuits are starting to be filed by various parties involved: http://www.pressherald.com/news/Maine_rail_bankruptcy_likely_to_spawn_more_lawsuits.html Cases against the various oil companies involved might be bolstered by some fines levied against oil companies for incorrectly representing the nature of their product http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/05/business/energy-environment/3-companies-fined-for-mislabeling-crude-oil-in-rail-transit.html?_r=0. This might be useful material for a lawyer but I think MM&A might have a hard time convincing anyone they would have done anything differently had they known more.Some motive power has moved off the MM&A to other RailWorld properties and locomotives that were pretty much junk are being cut up at Derby (source: various posters on railroad.net). Fortress Investment reportedly paid somewhere around $15 million for the road. In 2003 the transactions that led to the formation of the MM&A totalled $55 million, and in the 10 years following around $110 million was invested, including a $34 million FRA loan for track rehab. Taking into account money raised when some of the road was sold to Maine DOT or Irving, the loss in value over 10 years comes to around $71 million. (source: post on railroad.net by a pretty savvy individual) Helluva way to run a railroad. (railroad.net posts are in the MM&A sub-forum which is part of class II regionals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The new owners of the MM&A have chosen a name for their road: Central Maine and Quebec. http://bangordailynews.com/2014/02/14/business/new-owner-new-name-mma-to-become-the-central-maine-and-quebec-railway/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Charges have been laid in this derailment & fire. 47 counts of criminal negligence causing death have been laid against 3 employees (the engineer, railway traffic controller, and manager of train operations) as well as against the railway itself. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mm-a-railway-faces-charges-in-lac-m%C3%A9gantic-disaster-1.2640654 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted May 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2014 The first newspaper I read this morning said that the railway had been arrested (headline). In the article they twice mentioned the hydraulic brakes leaking off. (drip, drip, drip...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The first newspaper I read this morning said that the railway had been arrested (headline). They must have very large jails, IIRC it's a few hundred miles long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Documents submitted by the Surete du Quebec (provincial police force) in support of an application for a search warrant for the MM&A's Farnham offices have been unsealed. They give more details of what happened before the train ran away: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/a9gantic+employee+statements+police+unsealed/9936116/story.html (Edit - spelling) Edited June 15, 2014 by pH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The MMA's locos are up for auction http://www.adamsauctions.com//live/docu ... 0Flyer.pdfInit # TypeMMAL 21 GP7MMAL 23 GP7MMAL 79 GP9MMAL 100 GP7SLC 270 F40PHSLC 293 F40PHSLC 302 F40PHCDAC 450 F40PHM-2MMA 2000 B23-7MMA 3000 C30-7MMMA 3603 C30-7MMA 3609 C30-7MMA 3613 C30-7MMA 3614 C30-7MMA 5016 C30-7MMA 5017 C30-7MMA 5018 C30-7MMA 5021 C30-7MMA 5023 C30-7MMA 5026 C30-7MMA 5078 C30-7MMA 8202 C39-8MMA 8207 C39-8MMA 8208 C39-8MMA 8525 B39-8MMA 8541 B39-8MMA 8546 B39-8MMA 8553 B39-8MMA 8569 B39-8MMA 8578 B39-8MMA 8583 B39-8MMA 8592 B39-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Dreadfull. Do you think I could buy one to shunt around Didcot yard as those GE's make a lovely sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Can't see anyone other than scrappers wanting the C30-7s Brian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Seems something vaguely distasteful about the thought of anyone buying 5017. Presumably this is the liquidation of the whole MMA operation? CHRIS LEIGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted July 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2014 brian daniels, on 09 Jul 2014 - 16:58, said:Dreadfull. Do you think I could buy one to shunt around Didcot yard as those GE's make a lovely sound. Here you go Brian! Turn up the sound to notch 8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBHuwJfPd3A&list=FLMKlE9XhHaMu9-1K0lOp2zA&index=68 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Seems something vaguely distasteful about the thought of anyone buying 5017. Presumably this is the liquidation of the whole MMA operation? CHRIS LEIGH I don't know that it's very different from the Tay Bridge disaster locomotive being fished up from the bed of the estuary and returned to service. I think it's always gone on. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 TSB report to be released August 19th http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/avis-advisory/rail/2014/r13d0054-20140805.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Report released. Summary - http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/communiques/rail/2014/R13d0054-20140819.asp Report - http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2013/R13D0054/R13D0054.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 There's a considerable difference between TSB reports and those of HMRI so I guess I shouldn't judge but TSB reports always seem to be angled towards cure rather than prevention - I guess its now down to Transport Canada to regulate so that nothing similar can happen again. I see there was an earlier recommendation for compulsory risk assessments and I wonder if TC will require them and in what circumstances. Some comparatively inexpensive infrastructure, and changes in operating practices would have prevented this, but if all that happens is another round of ' if people had done their jobs correctly.....' is all that happens, then nothing will change because people can't be relied upon to always do their job correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2014 The trend over quite a lot of years now has been to try and engineer out human error, the ultimate development of such a philosophy in a railway context would be an unmanned fully automated system as per some metro systems (perhaps retaining a driver/operator as a passenger assurance and final stop precaution). The issue with this is that it doesn't eliminate human error, it just moves it to the software development and system assurance phases, and if you encounter a scenario outside any considered by the software development program then software doesn't have a seat of the pants mode. Another issue with automation is it de-skills operators so that if it fails then you tend to find that operations can be degraded to a much greater extent than you might expect as the skills and experience (and almost certainly the manning levels!!) to take everything back in hand just aren't there anymore. This has been identified as an issue by airlines with pilot flying skills and it is something that was very obvious in power plants. In some operations there has been a move to reduce automation to try and balance the advantages of automation with maintaining a reversionary human operator capability if needed. Equally there has also been a lot of movement towards fully automated plants and systems. In terms of accident investigation and risk management, that is one area where the UK still leads the world IMO. We may have lost a lot of our manufacturing and we may now rely on imported trains, power plants etc but in terms of accident investigation and controlling risks we are still world class. I attend several international forums for maritime safety and whilst the safety performance of UK shipping could be improved when I look at the performance of other administrations (an I do not just mean emerging countries) it can be quite shocking. I was employed by a German electricity generating company and when I visited German plants I always felt a bit edgy at the way they were operated as they were way behind the British plants in safety culture, or at least that was the opinion I formed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The report contains a couple of items that I've not seen mentioned previously, that the siding (loop) at Nantes where the train was tied up on the main was equipped with a derail and that it had stored cars parked on it, so was not available for the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The TSB has released a 3D animation of what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2014 I have only read the summary of the TSB Report and it says enough to give a fairly complete picture not only of the criminally (in my view) stupid and idiotic manner in which the train was inadequately secured but by highlighting the abysmal, cheapskate, mismanagement of the company's operations, its lack of any sort of safety culture and - no doubt - total inadequacies in staff training and supervision. Alas it was an incident waiting to happy in such a badly run concern and it is regrettable that such laxity led to appalling, and totally unnecessary, loss of life and destruction of property. It is a relatively simple matter - believe it or not - to manage a railway and its basic operating procedures safely and to establish a safety management system. It does not lead to onerous on-costs because if the job is being done properly and safely in the first place all the SMS does is codify and allow proper monitoring of procedures and standards. But it does rely on competent professional managerial standards and the establishment of a safety (aware) culture - and that is inevitably up to the company and its managers. If (relatively simple) external audit reveals they are failing in that respect then they should be barred from the industry, permanently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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