Vulcan 2-4-0

[hartleymartin]

At the moment I'm hard up for money to buy components, so I'll be concentrating on working with what materials I have stockpiled.

 

I've pulled out an old Vulcan 2-4-0 and 3x carriages plastic kit set that I bought years ago (for about $40 if I remember correctly.) I had previously looked at it for an On30 conversion, but put it aside with the hope that one day I might be able to figure out building a 2-4-0 standard gauge locomotive out of it.

 

With a 7mm scale ruler, the cab is about 6 feet wide and the footplate is about 22' long and just shy of 7' wide.

 

The driving wheels are 4'4" in diameter and the leading wheels about 2'10"

 

Slaters make 4'3" wheels with 13 spokes and 2'9" wheels with 8 spokes which would be suitable. I also note that slaters make plain 7'0" coupling rods. On the model the distance between the driving wheels is a scale 7'1.5", but as there are no visible splashers, this won't be a problem if I adjust this dimension accordingly.

 

I should point out that with a scratch-built chassis, it is possible to make a motorised version of this locomotive in 21mm, 24.5mm and 32mm gauge without significant modifications to the bodywork other than cutting open the firebox/boiler to make room for the motor and gearbox.

 

When funds finally permit once again, there will be an order to slaters for several components. I plan to make a chassis in a similar manner to the Tower models barclay from U-channel, although I have 1" aluminium at my disposal rather than 3/4" brass.

[Hesperus]

I can't wait to see what you do with it, I've got one that's currently on the too difficult pile but I have used the coach kits to make a couple of coachs http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64880-leintwardine-teme-valley-light-railway/

[hartleymartin]

The easiest conversion would be to turn it into an inside-cylinder 2-4-0 because you can get the wheels and the coupling rods as standard parts from slaters. If you cut a new footplate from 1mm styrene sheet and make it 7'0" wide and 22'0" long it is big enough to be mounted on a standard gauge chassis, but do watch the side-play of the driving wheels because a fine standard slaters wheelset is about 37.0mm wide over the tyres. and you'll have about 40mm internal width between the inside faces of the side tanks.

 

The coaches would be good for narrow gauge, as they are very short (15'0") in 7mm scale. In fact, one of them is an almost perfect match for an early Western Australian Government Railway coach.

[hartleymartin]

If a suitable chassis of about 12'6" wheelbase can be found, I reckon that this could make a good 0-6-0 using 3'0" driving wheels. Perhaps an 0-6-0 manning wardle chassis. Unfortunately, I don't think that this body will mount on the Ixion Hudswell Clarke chassis!

[hartleymartin]

I decided to assemble the body today. It is actually longer than the Ixion Hudswell Clarke!

 

I have not pulled apart the Hudswell Clarke to know what the mechanism is like, but I think that it would make a convincing 0-6-0 on the same chassis if the motor doesn't protrude into the body too far.

 

However, I intend to build this into an inside-cylinder 2-4-0. I think it'll make a good light railway locomotive ala Colonel Stephens.

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I have not pulled apart the Hudswell Clarke to know what the mechanism is like"

 

Here you go ...

 

 

I have been working on my coversion of the Ixion HC to GCR No. 278 again, safety valves and whistles this time.  I have written up the progress in 'the Other House' (G0G Forum) and I'll do the same here when I get a round-to-it.

 

David

[hartleymartin]

Thanks David - It would appear that the motor sits too high in the body of the Hudswell Clarke chassis for this to work with the Vulcan locomotive unless the boiler and side tanks were increased in height, which would render most of the plastic kit useless.

 

That said, I am sure that many people will find this picture handy if considering the possibility of putting another body on the most excellent quality ixion chassis block!

 

I am looking forward to someone offering a body kit to go onto this chassis.

[Hesperus]

What about the Lima 4F chassis?  I know it's a bit grim but they tend to be cheap,  there's not much to them size wise and the wheels look a similar size.  The centre wheels don't have crankpins but you could put the front set in the centre then make new rods and a pony truck to give you a 2-4-0T chassis.

 

I have one here if you need any dimensions.

[Guest Isambarduk]

"the wheels look a similar size"

 

They are much lager.

 

"the Lima 4F chassis ... it's a bit grim"

 

That's an understatement, if ever there was one; it's not on the same planet as an Ixion chassis.  Be prepared to manage your expectations seriously downwards if you decide to explore the Lima 4F route.

 

David

[hartleymartin]

I've used the plastic components from the kit to mock up a standard gauge chassis. At this stage I think I am best scratch-building a chassis with slaters wheelsets. Thankfully, slaters happen to make a set of plain 7'0" coupling rods which would go perfectly with 4'3" driving wheels for a replacement chassis. (Not to mention the 2'8" or 2'9" wheelsets for the leading axle)

 

On the Vulcan, it seems that the firebox sits beween the two driving axles. The firebox isn't very big, so it seems that my best option would be to put the drive on the leading driving wheels and go for a horizontal motor mounting. I think I would go for the 54:1 gearbox to keep the top speed down. I would like to put a Mashima 1833 motor in it, but I may have to opt for a smaller motor, depending on clearances inside the body and hence the very slow speed gearbox.

 

Considering that I paid about $45 Australian Dollars (may 20 pounds) for the kit locomotive + 3 coaches, it seems that I am putting a cheap body onto an expensive scratch-built chassis!

[hartleymartin]

I happen to have a Lima 4F chassis in my garage. Indeed, the wheels are way too big. They are 5'0" diameter.

[hartleymartin]

It looks like the footplate of the Vulcan needs to be raised about 1.5-2.0mm for this to work in standard gauge, otherwise the bufferbeams will be too low. This is good since it will give a little bit more room in the body for the motor to go in.

 

I doubt that my original plan to use 1" U-channel will work for the chassis, as I will probably have to mount the motor horizontally in the boiler. It looks like the tried-and-trusted method of making the chassis out of two sheets of brass held together with spacers must be done.

 

Then comes the problem of chassis design. Do I make it essentially as an 0-4-0 with a long front overhang and a pony truck which is free to move? The motor must drive the centre axle, because the rear axle sits under the rather open cab.

 

At the moment my thoughts are to make the middle axle rigid, the rear axle to bear from the centre (to make 3-point suspension) and to have the front axle sprung. Looking at the Ixion Hudswell clarke, the  two front axles are rigid and the rear axle has a fair bit of movement allowed, and it runs quite well and around a 36" curve.

[hartleymartin]

Hopefully someone is still reading this thread:

 

Where do you get the brass frame spacers for O gauge?

[Johnson044]

I'm in a similar situation- I've built a couple of standard gauge carriages using the kit sides, axleboxes & springs and lamp tops (a four compartment luggage third and a varandah ended inspection saloon) & robbed the loco kit of its chimney and a couple of other bits for other projects. Still to investigate what to do with the loco, which, as you say, will make a good light inside cylindered 2-4-0- much like the Manning Wardle ones from the Millwall Extension railway, but a bit bigger, I think.

 

I wondered about using the driving wheels from a Tri-ang L1 or 2P- these scale out at about 3' 6" and if you remove every other spoke (easy- the soft Mazak snaps out cleanly with a long-nosed pair of pliers and the remaining stumps are soon filed away) you have some driving wheels with a tyre profile not too far from the Slaters ones but with more delicate, rectangular section spokes which are very much in keeping with those typical of smaller C19th locos. The tyres are brightly plated, which is a bit of a disadvantage but you get 10ba threaded holes already drilled for crank pins and if you use the insulated ones they'll press straight onto 1/8" dia steel rod for axles and you can use 4mm scale bearings, gears and motor- it's all pretty inexpensive. You'll need some appropriate metal or plastikard balance weights. Haven't explored using the bigger drivers from a Tri-ang A3, which might have potential. All these bits are still relatively easy to get hold of and cheap. Try East Kent Models of Whitstable, who are usually pretty helpful.

 

The leading wheels are a bit of a problem (in less you make it an 0-6-0) but the Tri-ang Lord of the Isles / Caley single chassis has trailing wheels which scale at about 18mm, which is just over 2'6" - the trouble is they have 14 spokes, which leaves you with 7, which is unusual but not unheard of- Brotherhoods of Chipenham (works nr 12) was a small standard gauge 2-4-0 ST with leading wheels of about that size with 7 spokes, so there IS a prototype!

 

The thoughts on suspension seem pretty valid- just try to get as much weight as you can on the driven, un-sprung wheels.

 

it's a really good little kit (albeit a curious one- full smokebox interior detail but no opening smokebox door!) but so much potential.

 

Very much look forward to seeing how you get on- it all sounds really promising. 

[PatB]

Hopefully someone is still reading this thread:

 

Where do you get the brass frame spacers for O gauge?

 

If you can send me dimensions, I can chase the chickens off the lathe, have a dig in the offcuts box and see what I can do about turning you up a set for the cost of postage.  I'm a bit short of small taps but I can probably do M2.5 or M3 'oles in the middle.