RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2013 I was looking into the operation of the old Transfesa terminal at Paddock Wood (I have a soft spot for ferry vans!), and came across this from a working timetable appendix from 1988 http://files.limitofshunt.org.uk/sectional-appendices/br-s/part-6-1985.pdf "PADDOCK WOOD The Transfesa Ltd. supervisor is responsible for opening the gates prior to a train entering the firm's siding and locking them when shunting has been completed. Authority to enter the shed will be given by the illumination of two white lights fixed at the entrance to the shed above each siding, operated by the firm's supervisor. Should either of the white lights be extinguished while shunting is in progress, the movement must be brought to a stand immediately and must not proceed until the shunter has reached a clear understanding with the firm's supervisor. Whilst shunting is taking place in the shed a klaxon horn will sound a warning to those working in the vicinity." Does anyone know what form the lights would have taken? Arranged horizontally, vertically, or diagonally? And would they have been above the entrance to the warehouse or to one side? Are there any other examples in existence that I could draw a conclusion from? Regards Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Entry to some repair sheds are controlled by position light signals at ground level. Those you mention could be same? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 I don't think they are in this case. From the description it sounds like they are mounted on the warehouse over the entrance, but I have no idea what they would have looked like! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Probably 'Bulkhead' fittings like this:- https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bulkhead+lights&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=jhFAUsmRG4nB7Aa5uYHoBQ&ved=0CHAQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=785&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Zv_EF4nRFag_kM%3A%3BxHUqTs8ZJs4G7M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.hollowaysofludlow.com%252Fimgsize.php%253Fconstrain%253D1000%2526h%253D1000%2526w%253D289%2526img%253Dimages%252FProduct%252F187A.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.hollowaysofludlow.com%252Fdetails.php%253FP1%253D%2526Clv%253D4%2526C1%253D20%2526C2%253D224%2526C3%253D809%2526C4%253D1256%3B289%3B414 I vaguely recollect similar lights in other places for this sort of duty. They almost certainly wouldn't be anything like railway signals- simply a white light which would be illuminated when access was permitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Mal, In private sidings you work to the arrangements agreed between the TOC rep and the operator/owner of the sdgs. These are published as 'local instructions' for the observance of traincrew and groundstaff. If the light(s) provided is/are just ordinary 100W bulb(s) in a bulkhead fitting then that is what you work to...the sequence of lights on/off and their meaning would be as written. The Sectional Appendix for the area would show these instructions if you want to read what was written. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thanks guys - that all sounds a lot simpler than I had imagined :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 As yet, I've not found anything on Google, but I did happen upon this photo of the shunter that was employed after Whirlpool took over the lease:- http://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/8469292980/in/pool-1001736@N22/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thanks - shame someone parked a truck in front of the entrance! I've done lots of Google searches, but there's very little showing any detail of the building, apart from the ones with it going up in flames! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thanks - shame someone parked a truck in front of the entrance! I've done lots of Google searches, but there's very little showing any detail of the building, apart from the ones with it going up in flames! I wonder if Barrie Swann has anything, as he lives locally? I'm not sure if he's on this Forum; if he isn't, you might reach him via 'Lydd Rail'. I remember the fire very well; the smoke was visible from here, about 30 miles away. It was our 22nd wedding anniversary, and we missed our dinner, as my wife's train had to return towards London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Mal, I never took many pics of the warehouse at Paddock Wood but the attached might help. I guess there may have been lights in the box next to the siding number. I will ask Barrie if he has any better pics. Cheers. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Shame to see it gone; I'll bet the new facility hasn't got rail connections.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 Great pictures - an angle I've never seen! That's very helpful, thanks. Zoomed in It does indeed look like there are vertical pairs of lights to the left of the next to the siding number. From other views and from looking at the remains of the old warehouse from aerial views, it wasn't even clear that there were more than the two sidings running through the centre of the building. Does anyone know if there was a siding #4, making the building symmetrical? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 It was our 22nd wedding anniversary, and we missed our dinner, as my wife's train had to return towards London. At least it was your wife who missed it and not you - you'd never hear the end of it otherwise :-D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 Enlarging the pictures definitely gives the impression of something to the left of each number. Edit - beaten to it. I remember putting in lights in a few places to assist shunting. They were either bulkheads or a signal with no coloured glass. The instruction basically was "if you can't see the light STOP" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 Presumably then the loco wouldn't completely enter the shed itself, because the driver wouldn't be able to see the signal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Presumably then the loco wouldn't completely enter the shed itself, because the driver wouldn't be able to see the signal? It wouldn't matter whether the driver could see the signal once the loco had entered the warehouse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 There was no 4th Siding. See pic. I don't think locos went in the warehouse very often as Brian's link about an industrial shunter which was a failure. Cheers. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2013 Cheers Paul - that's just perfect :-) From reading around the internet I got the feeling that the industrial shunter was a later acquisition (and a failure by all accounts). Coupled with the timetable appendix, it led me to believe that maybe shunting was originally carried out by BR's locos, and only later switched to the company's own shunter. It seems that they may have given up on it and by the end just unloaded the wagons outside with forklifts (although looking at that layout, I'm at a loss to understand why the shunter had to be at the warehouse end of the track, and therefore cause the problems mentioned in the photo caption) Regards Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 ...locos may have been prohibited from entering the sheds esp. if there was no extraction system to remove exhaust fumes. A diesel loco would make an enclosed space hazardous from fumes quickly. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Cheers Paul - that's just perfect :-) From reading around the internet I got the feeling that the industrial shunter was a later acquisition (and a failure by all accounts). Coupled with the timetable appendix, it led me to believe that maybe shunting was originally carried out by BR's locos, and only later switched to the company's own shunter. It seems that they may have given up on it and by the end just unloaded the wagons outside with forklifts (although looking at that layout, I'm at a loss to understand why the shunter had to be at the warehouse end of the track, and therefore cause the problems mentioned in the photo caption) Regards Mal Given the number of wagons they dealt with, it's most likely they just propelled them in using the train loco, which would barely have needed to enter the shed. The shunter was only acquired when Philipps Whirlpool leased the place from Transfesa; London Carriers were Philipps' distribution arm. It would have stayed on the warehouse end, as it would have had to go on to BR metals (and thus be registered with them) if it were on the other end- all the points are outside the premises. In BR days, I think the traffic was sufficent to merit the presence of an 09 at Paddock Wood; apart from Transfesa, there was a Rowntree's depot, and BR engineering sidings. I doubt they would have unloaded the wagons in the yard; from experience in a similar operation with Indesit, some of the lifting relied on a fork attachment engaging on a (cardboard) lip on the side of the packing. If the cardboard was wet, it would fail spectacularily, generally when the load was a maximum height; the result was generally four washer-driers written-off, and a very loud bang. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2013 That all makes sense - cheers. Do you remember where the Rowntrees depot was? I know they used those white-roofed vans, but pictures of them that I've seen don't really show where they are! Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 That all makes sense - cheers. Do you remember where the Rowntrees depot was? I know they used those white-roofed vans, but pictures of them that I've seen don't really show where they are! Mal Not exactly sure, but someone told me it was just behind the station on the Down side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Rowntrees building was Downside closer to the station. See pic below. The building is the light coloured one to the left of the wagon with the single road entry door on the end near the cable drums. Cheers. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Rowntrees building was Downside closer to the station. See pic below. T-947 Paddock Wood 29-11-98.jpg The building is the light coloured one to the left of the wagon with the single road entry door on the end near the cable drums. Cheers. Paul. A nice shot of that one-off conversion that was sat next to the bay for a while, Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Maltazer Posted September 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2013 Oh, it was rail-served too? Interesting. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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