Steve Taylor Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I've been going through my small collection finally running them in on the dining table main line testing facility this week. Amongst those done was an A1 which has jammed up. The coupling rods are out of true and it almost looks/feels like one of the centre drivers has slipped on the crank. Is it worth a bit of dismantling to investigate? Should I get a "fitter" to attend? Has anyone else had a similar problem? The model is 18 months old and though being on display has never run or really been looked at closely with that in mind. My first thought was yippee a donor for a Bradwell conversion, but being a gift it has a certain sentimental value so I'd like to see it run conventionally at least once. Cheers all Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 The model is out of guarantee, so you have relatively little to lose by seeing if a DIY fix is possible. I have a few A1s, and have had no trouble with wheelsets going out of quarter, despite prolonged use with plenty of extra weight in the loco; nor do I recall anything in the way of complaints on line relating to this model's wheels going out of quarter. Which doesn't in any way preclude such a problem arising of course... Did the loco run for sometime before jamming up? If so one thing to look at is whether rods have caught on each other or fixed structure causing the jam up. Top location to look at is a leading crankpin having caught the connecting rod. It is easier to investigate these problems with the motor worm disengaged so that the chassis is free rolling, just pop the motor up out of the plastic cradle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Thanks for another swift reply and apologies for my seeming ignorance in not replying earlier - between the server issues and my mac dissemboweling itself I've been hiding from tinterweb. The loco barely turned a wheel in answer to your question. It was literally put on the track and low power turned on and it locked up. I've a whole weekend of occupying the dining table to "play trains" between house viewings so both this and the ivatt 4 should get looked at this w/e. Cheers once again. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm not noted for a prompt attention to detail. Shortly after this question was posted, we sold the house and moving chaos ensued. Only last night did I finally get chance to dismantle the a1's underpinnings and my suspicions were right. It has slipped the nearside driver on the centre axle. I've attempted a fix but it slipped again. Is it possible to just get a complete replacement wheelset inc drive gear or do I have to replace all the drivers as a set. For anyone in a similar boat these are quartered at 180 deg and therefore a GW wheel press (set for a 90deg offset) is of no use. Would anyone have a spare? I had hoped to keep this original for sentimental reasons but am starting to have naughty thoughts about a P4 conversion.......... would anyone have overhaul details for 60144? If it ever did time at North Road then it could have done a running in turn through Broomielaw and it becomes fair game for a p4 conversion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I think Bachmann will only sell you a complete set of driving wheels inc coupling rods. probably £12-15. I would be tempted to say under these circumstances you should replace the whole lot anyway as quartering may be slightly different between batches of wheels (from experienceof trying to mix and match steam drivers in the past) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 a fair point G-BOAF: an email has been sent to Bachmann. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted September 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 13, 2012 Another possible explanation is the gear set splitting. Dry due to lack of use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 ... For anyone in a similar boat these are quartered at 180 deg and therefore a GW wheel press (set for a 90deg offset) is of no use... Did a double take at that! The cranks are set at 180 degrees? With rare exceptions, OO steam models are universally set at 90 degrees (even three cylinder types which should have 120 degree offset) simply because this is the most tolerant of small errors, as well as correct for two and four cylinder types. A 180 degree setting will be at great hazard of a jam up from the first turn of the wheels, and likely to move a wheelset on the driven axle: which is exactly the event you described... If this is the case, despite being out of guarantee, Bachmann may well look sympathetically on the case: this would constitute a clear original manufacturing fault. Write them explaining the circumstances, and see how they respond. If they won't play, the purchase of a replacement wheelset is the way forward for OO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Steve, Your post has prompted me to check out my Kings Courier. Just like yours, bought new and stood uncovered on my dusty desk since buying pending conversion. Well apart from pulling off the body and removing nameplates and numbers. My chassis is untouched and quartered at 90° R.H. lead. Like yours, it's never been run apart from a quick check when delivered. However many years ago that was? I've just put it on the rollers and applied power for and it runs fine. I've chipped a few for other folk over the years and never had any problems. I've never noticed the quartering and always assumed 90° but as I say I wasn't looking. As is said in post #8 the 180° offset is probably the cause of your problem. Seems like you have a unique A1? Get it "Bradwelled"... Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Aye oop Paul... a Bradwell or a Brassmasters on Ultrascales is a possibility. Its in bits as I write and all three wheelsets are at 180deg. Given that it can't make it any worse I'm going to try shifting the lot to 90deg. If it doesn't work it'll get stuffed and mounted for the moment. I'll drag out "Tornado" in a bit for comparison. Am almost tempted to bodge them together and make an un-named 60144 as she rolled out of North Road in 1949. Edited to add: Greetings from not quite Rugby test plant (I'm about 15 miles away from that site). After roughly quartering the driving wheelsets by eye, I have an working A1 chassis running in on driving wheels only. The rolling chassis has had the body and cylinder valve gear assembly removed and is upside down on two blocks of wood with wires connected straight into the pick up bus on the underside. Its rough and ready but it does go. At a glance the rear wheelset is still slightly out with a very occasional slight twist under power but nothing is binding or locking, the axles are parallel and the eyes in the rods are fairly sloppy. I may still get a set of wheels for it but its quite satisfying to carry out a homemade fix..... especially with my Heath Robinson test facilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 just to update - 60144 has had the drivers shifted to 90deg rh lead, as per Mr Mane's description, from 180deg. This was done by eye and feel. It's run for the last 3 hours in both directions and has settled in nicely. I'm still rather surprised by the torque twist traveling through the axles, but I suppose its to be expected with relatively sloppy rods and axle slots. Indeed I thought it was my work not being up to scratch and so ordered a fresh set of drivers from bachman. Having completed running in and testing I've put it to one side and hauled out 60163 to run it similarly and am surprised to see similar running characteristics (though this time quartered more effectively). Methinks I should have looked at these things more closely sooner and possibly not expect £100 locos to behave with the clockwork precision of handbuilt items 2-3 times that cost involving involving exotic suspension etc. I do like the simplicity of the sprung pivot on the leading driving axle though - one point suspension reminiscent to the front suspension of a model t ford iirc. Simple but it works. Anyways now to go through the fleet checking things over. Most will get converted to p4, but 60144 will most likely stay 00 for sentimental reasons...... and as far as I know an A1 never passed through Broomielaw: go on someone prove me wrong Cheers all for reading and advising. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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