Brack Models - 3D printed stuff

[brack]

Hi all, I've finally registered here - I taught myself CAD last year, and have since produced a fair number of 3D printed models. Mainly they're O9 (15"-18" stuff in 7mm/ft) but there are some broader deviations of late. I was invited to write my first CAD project up in NG&IRM back in january. Lately I've been producing my own chassis blocks, with my last project being a full body/chassis kit for a NER/LNER class Y7 in 00 (which is easily tweakable to EM if someone wants it wider). Though I do make my stuff available on shapeways, I don't make models unless I want one myself, and they're first and foremost my own personal models, which are then made available for others, hence I've put them here and not in the trade section (if the mods want it moved, let me know, but plenty of others on here seem to be showing the stuff they've produced/made available).

 

O9 locos (all to fit on a modified Fleischmann 7000 chassis - I'm currently drawing up a fleischmann replacement to make these available in 14mm and 16.5mm gauges as a few have asked)

 

Bagnall Sipat class:

 

 

Leo70 (a new build german feldbahn loco based on an old Hartmann design)

 

Bagnall 042T Annie (as at Groudle Glen) - in primer, showing my preferred technique - leave off the rivets and small details to allow for proper smoothing of the printed surfaces with 1600 grit paper (my Sipat had a mirror shine on it before painting - I could literally see my reflection in it!) rivets are then added using the excellent archer transfers. My goal is that nobody should be able to tell from looking at the model that it is 3D printed, so no visible layering. The loco obviously looks much better since painting it and the chassis and putting plates on, but you get an idea of the method I've found to produce the best results for me (others may differ on that - there are no right and wrongs really, just ways that have worked for each designer)

 

I'm modelling an 18" gauge line in Sudan (there were two, built by the royal engineers, and rumours of plans for another) and for some reason the traditional providers of figures and fauna don't seem to produce the things I really need, so I made my own scale sized adult/juvenile tortoises

All those are 7mm/ft.

 

I also have produced a 4mm/ft Y7, which has the chassis printed in one model. The brake shoes and clack valves are on little sprues inside the frames to fit in preprinted holes.

 

the chassis uses an inexpensive gearmotor (I foolishly went for the 298:1 model, just to see how slow it'd go - the answer is very slow, and its a bit noisy, but it runs well. I've got some 51:1 models of the same dimensions for next time!)

 

finished loco (all covered in fingerprints after people looking at it at Railex NE - I know the letter spacing si wrong, but I spaced it from the drawings as I didn't have a photo. "fortunately" there happened to be someone with just such a photo of 982 at the exhibition )

 

 

I'm currently working on a 4mm/ft model of the CIE cement bubble (to fit the Dapol prestwin kit parts and the etched walkways already available) and the Hudswell Clarke diesel ZM9/Crewe/5519 (the 18" gauge diesel supplied to crewe works in O9 - this with a complete chassis as well. I've also produced several chassis designs using nigel lawton motors/layshafts in 9mm and 12mm gauges. I normally post over on ngrm-online as most of my work is narrow gauge, but with there being a few wider projects I thought I'd put them here, it'll be nice to be able to cross-fertilise ideas with other designers here regarding chassis.

 

 

[brack]

Thanks for the likes, on to a current project:

 

this is ZM9, aka LMS 5519 'Crewe' (D563/1930). Either way it was the diesel hudswell clarke supplied for the 18" line at crewe, which moved on to horwich afterwards. I've read that it was the first diesel purchased for use by any of the big 4 (but am open to correction on that). Either way, its an interesting little beast. There are no drawings, but I have 4 photos, some basic dimensions, and Andrew Lamin's excellent MS train Sim model (I don't have MSTS, but you can download the models and view them in shapeview). Andrew's model is good, though obviously not suitable to use for a physical model. What is does do is allow me to look at how he's worked out the bits that aren't clear on my photos (and I feel I ought to give credit as without it I probably wouldn't have tried ot make this loco).

 

current state of play:

 

not too much left to do on the bodywork, though the chassis needs more doing to it. This will be a complete model (chassis frame and cranks will be 3D printed, with the rods etched. I'm leaning towards a nigel lawton 10x12 motor, belt drive and layshaft with tenshodo worms). Obviously the other side isn't done, but it is basically a mirror of this one, so will only take 30 seconds.

 

 

cab details guesstimated using other early hudswell diesels. the end of the gearbox shows in some of the side on photos, but I haven't found a shot that shows the cab interior. cab roof supports will be 1mm brass rod (square section for the front, round for the back), I still need to put little sockets in for those. If anyone has any more pictures of ZM9, or knows where to find them, I'd be interested. it lasted until 1957 at horwich, but all I've seen are the pictures in the Talbot/Taylor crewe works NG book, and one of it dirty at horwich which is online somewhere.

 

I've finished drawing up a 9mm gauge ruston LAT/LBT chassis to fit the kbscale body (I already have one running, but have revised it slightly to improve it). Also done are the second revision of my 4mm scale CIE bubble wagon to fit the Dapol prestwin, I'm hoping to get all these done soon so I can put a big order in to save on postage. Since Shapeways like to reject things for spurious reasons, I like to have big batches so that if one new model is deemed unprintable, at least I'll get something.

[brack]

ZM9 is finished and ready for test printing, but I'm trying to get my O9 Couillet/Decauville* 2.5T 040T finished - it will fit on the trusty fleischmann 7000. This is done without drawings, just using catalogue engravings and photos. There are several variations, this one is based on the Minas de Barruelo locos in Spain (4 of them preserved), but once done I'll do the new caledonian Decauville version with parasol cab roof and the cabless version (as extant plonked on a roundabout in northen spain). I still have to do the backhead detail, but the front end is looking OK.

 

 

this is the one in the museum in madrid (from their website):

 

The other 3 of them are in a scrapyard in zaragoza, along with a load of other narrow gauge locos - the owner likes them, so won't be cutting them up any time soon, he's had them over 40 years! a friend of mine got him to send a load of detail photos of them. as can be expected from a bunch of 1880ish locos which worked into the 1960s there are huge amounts of detail differences between the quartet, so mine is more of a combination of them, rather than an exact replica of any one (plus the gauge is wrong - these were 550mm, whilst the models will be masquerading as 18" - but they match up nicely for size with my other locos). They're nice characterful little locos though, I'm quite pleased with how its going. I originally drew the fittings last year in 1/32 for my friend who was scratchbuilding one, but them decided that I may as well do the whole thing in O scale so I could have one.

 

*Couillet built many locos for Decauville, which were then fitted with decauville works plates and sold under their own name, hence the same design can be either, as Couillet also sold them themselves! to make matters worse I recently came across some photos of one in Java in the early 1900s which had a dutch colonial agent plates on it instead, so what its official identity was before 'rebadging' is rather hard to work out!

[Dava]

Love those Couillet locos & the curved-under profile on the tanks!

 

Dava

[stadman]

Liking the narrow gauge

[brack]

I've had some feedback from a few friends on NGRM, and have tried a version with slightly (1mm) deeper tanks, which looks better. As I said, I'm working from photos and catalogue engravings. When I originally drew this I had the tanks too deep (2mm deeper than the render in the previous post) which made it look  a bit slab sided. When I adjusted the tanks it looked much better, so I was happy with it. Others, with fresh eyes, noticed I'd made them a little too shallow, so perhaps this revision is better:

 

the beauty of forums and honest feedback (and the ability to alter the CAD easily!). Thanks for the comments gents, this is the 1880s model. The 1890s version has more square tanks, though still with rounded edges. Of course I'll have to build one of each version just to test the 'product', which will give a nice little class of locos with variation. One day there is a plan to produce an O9 loco worked serrieres-suchard funicular layout (look it up on funimag - great little prototype, though the real thing was hand worked), but that'll have to wait until I'm finished with Sudan (that layout is progressing rather slowly....)

[Hawk]

Very impressing work!

You are one of the few that have really tackled the stepping issue head on. Your models stand up to side by side comaparsion to models built with traditional techniques, and very little of the 3D printed stuff does that in my opinion.

 

The strategy of leaving rivets and fragile details out of the print so you cand sand and use filler primer is a very good one.

 

 

[brack]

A while since I posted anythign on here. I received the first print of my O9 version of ZM9, and two more CIE bubble wagon bodies.

 

ZM9 comes rather well packed...

 

there are cranks (50% extra free for spares), chassis block, cab roof and brake standard on sprues in the chassis. Once you chop all the bits off you can start putting things together. This is the current state of play:

 

 

the chassis uses nigel lawton/kbscale components.

 

It is starting to look like the real thing. I need to get some plates etched for it, plus connecting rods (and maybe a set of etched cranks - there isn't much space there, but I thought I may as well include the printed ones as they don't actually add anything much to the price.

[PeterGrant]

Impressive works dude! Good for you that you altered the CAD easily. Have you already tried making wheels? I dealt with rubber-like filaments with my miniature London trains last month; I must say it’s the best filament material for miniature tires and mini automobile prototype. Just tell me if that fits your project, too. Good luck!

[Quarryscapes]

Looking good! Saw the little Bagnall on Shapeways a while back. The Y7 looks excellent - how was such a good finish achieved?

[Dazzler Fan]

A very nice model.
 

Quarryscapes:

 

These prints, if Shapeways, look like FUD, which gives the excellent finish and plenty of detail.

The comment about leaving off rivet detail for cleaning is only really relevent for WSF prints.

There is a balance between cost v. detail, when FUD material is 3x the cost of WSF. My experience

has been to print the large parts in WSF, with detailed removed to a sprue printed in FUD. On the

WSF print this leaves unobstructed areas for easy cleaning.

Having written that, Shapeways WSF is generally quite clean, and only a matter of removing surface

fuzz by burnishing with a wooden cuticle stick.

 

Brack:

I have found the 420rpm geared motor onto 1:1 bevel gears gives excellent torque and a realistic

speed. Both ends of the motor shaft can be cut with a Dremel Wheel, as too the boss on the bevel

gears; to really tuck the motor down into the frames.

 

On the ZM9, I would suggest you experiment by pulling all the detail off to a sprue printed in FUD,

and bring the price down by having the main print in WSF

 

Noel

[brack]

thanks - I've tried WSF in the past (and FD, and detail plastic) and came to the conclusion that I would only use FUD. I still prepare the surface - rubbing with 1600 grit paper (I have a few cocktail sticks with 1600 grit stuck around them for awkward spots), and then a combination of Mr surfacer 1200, halfords yellow filler primer spray, johnsons klear and more rub downs before I'm happy. The Y7 was actually a very clean print in FUD, so only took a little rubbing down with 1600 grit, and a squirt of halfords filler primer. Rivets are archer transfers if in straight lines, or for curved lines generally a cocktail stick and evo stik wood glue are used. I still feel that FUD prints DO need some cleanup, so still keep rivets separate. The key point is getting a good finish on the surface before you paint it - my goal is that you shouldn't be able to tell its 3D printed by looking at it, so no layering or raised lines. I may be a little perfectionist about it at times (I had a mirror finish on Sipat's saddle tank before painting - you could literally see your face in it (used mr surfacer, klear, 1600grit). I find that with FUD you still often get the little effect whereby the details look as though they've been dragged up the side (a bit like a shadow).

 

For mechanical parts such as the chassis blocks, I find WSF is not accurate enough - bearing holes come out non-round and some dimensions are compromised (I went over some test prints with the verniers a few months back), generally more in the z axis that x & y, but you can't control orientation. FD or black detail plastic are accurate enough, as is FUD (0.03mm out over 30mm seems pretty good tolerances to me). I design the chassis block for the bearings I use, and the fit is perfect - the bearing just pushes into the hole and stays there. With WSF they don't fit in the holes...

 

I don't mean to say that you can't get good results using WSF, I have a WSF model on my layout (took a fair bit of work to finish it off though) and I've seen others produce good things with it, but since all my locos come in under £50 in FUD, I don't see the need to compromise. The large scale (1/17 and 1/24) versions of Sipat are of course in WSF for cost reasons, but the physically larger size is easier to finish and the details larger and more robust.

 

thanks for the advice re chopping the motor shaft - will have to try it, though the motor fits in the Y7 in its current state so I didn't want to mess with it too much. I assume that the 420rpm motor is quieter than the 120rpm? I have a couple, but haven't used them in anger. To be honest I'm tempted to sell the Y7 on, as I don't have anywhere to run it and could do with some cash. I cut the collar off one of the bevel gears to fit between 00 frames for the Y7, but I used a razor saw. A cutting disc would've been much easier!

[shortliner]

Peter Grant - your link seems to have an extra "HTTP//" in it - try this

http://www.3d2print.net/shop/product/rubber-black-1-75mm/

[Quarryscapes]

thanks - I've tried WSF in the past (and FD, and detail plastic) and came to the conclusion that I would only use FUD. I still prepare the surface - rubbing with 1600 grit paper (I have a few cocktail sticks with 1600 grit stuck around them for awkward spots), and then a combination of Mr surfacer 1200, halfords yellow filler primer spray, johnsons klear and more rub downs before I'm happy. The Y7 was actually a very clean print in FUD, so only took a little rubbing down with 1600 grit, and a squirt of halfords filler primer. Rivets are archer transfers if in straight lines, or for curved lines generally a cocktail stick and evo stik wood glue are used. I still feel that FUD prints DO need some cleanup, so still keep rivets separate. The key point is getting a good finish on the surface before you paint it - my goal is that you shouldn't be able to tell its 3D printed by looking at it, so no layering or raised lines. I may be a little perfectionist about it at times (I had a mirror finish on Sipat's saddle tank before painting - you could literally see your face in it (used mr surfacer, klear, 1600grit). I find that with FUD you still often get the little effect whereby the details look as though they've been dragged up the side (a bit like a shadow).

 

For mechanical parts such as the chassis blocks, I find WSF is not accurate enough - bearing holes come out non-round and some dimensions are compromised (I went over some test prints with the verniers a few months back), generally more in the z axis that x & y, but you can't control orientation. FD or black detail plastic are accurate enough, as is FUD (0.03mm out over 30mm seems pretty good tolerances to me). I design the chassis block for the bearings I use, and the fit is perfect - the bearing just pushes into the hole and stays there. With WSF they don't fit in the holes...

 

I don't mean to say that you can't get good results using WSF, I have a WSF model on my layout (took a fair bit of work to finish it off though) and I've seen others produce good things with it, but since all my locos come in under £50 in FUD, I don't see the need to compromise. The large scale (1/17 and 1/24) versions of Sipat are of course in WSF for cost reasons, but the physically larger size is easier to finish and the details larger and more robust.

 

thanks for the advice re chopping the motor shaft - will have to try it, though the motor fits in the Y7 in its current state so I didn't want to mess with it too much. I assume that the 420rpm motor is quieter than the 120rpm? I have a couple, but haven't used them in anger. To be honest I'm tempted to sell the Y7 on, as I don't have anywhere to run it and could do with some cash. I cut the collar off one of the bevel gears to fit between 00 frames for the Y7, but I used a razor saw. A cutting disc would've been much easier!

 

Glad to know it's been worked on, was worried I'd missed a really clean 3d print from somewhere! I find FUD has a lovely texture for wood, if you're lucky enough to get it orientated the right way! Usually a couple of thick brushed on coats of primer is enough to flatten it down for me, though for a large flush panel yes it'd have to be sanded and filled for me too. 

 

Glad you mention oval holes in WSF too, I thought it was a product of hole size and the angle of entry into the boiler I had printed in it that caused the issue, it's taken an age to get it smooth but it's done now! 

[Etched Pixels]

I've taken to printing holes in WSF, especially on curved surfaces undersized. It's far easier to print a 0.6mm hole and just run a drill through it than clean up oval ones.

 

Alan

[Quarryscapes]

Incidentally where do you get small bevel gears from for use with those motors? I have a couple knocking about I wouldn't mind trying. 

[brack]

haven't posted here for a while. recently I've been working on bubbles. CIE cement bubbles to be precise. I've released my 'kit' (printed body to go with the studio scale modles etch and the Dapol pretwin chassis) via shapeways. On my website I've been putting up a detailed build for instructions, so won't go into it here, but they look like this:

 

This is actually the 4th I've built, the other 3 were prototypes and had slight tweaks made to them. Rather foolishly I didn't take any photos of the others! I'm building this as part of a batch of 4 for my dad, and will then do another batch of 4 in a month or so (mass production gets to you!) so he has a rake of 11 in total.

 

Otherwise I've been tweaking the couillet 040T after discovering a few issues with the first prototype and have produced the parasol cab version (test print ordered). I've also started work on the Krauss 15" gauge pacifics used in germany, spain, india and various other places and have been in touch with the kind folks at the Dresden miniature railway who are rather interested (they have a 1/45 standard gauge layout with a 9mm/15" gauge miniature line, which presently has no stock) and have sent me some excellent photos and drawings.