andyman7 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This pair of Tri-ang Railways R52 Jinty locomotives finished on eBay yesterday at £112 - and one of them is in pieces. Why the astounding price? Well one of them is lettered 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' on the side - according to Pat Hammonds book this was only applied to the first few hundred made, using transfers from the R51 ex-Trackmaster N2, until the 'cycling lion' transfers were available. It looks to have the correct Rovex Richmond flip-top box too - despite clearly needing some TLC (and with the inevitable missing footsteps) I'm not surprised at the bidding for what is a very rare item indeed (and no, I didn't win it!), Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I just found this post searching for more information on these locos, as I won the auction and finally got round to collecting the parcel from the depot today. I was actually quite surprised to see one come up on eBay, as I've never seen one for sale before, and I guessed that the bidding would be fairly competitive. Actually, ignoring the other (c 1954) Jinty in the auction, this was probably the most expensive model engine I've ever bought. Recently I dug some boxes of models out of storage and found (amongst other things I'd forgotten about buying) a Trackmaster N2 in good condition - needless to say the transfers are exactly the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmodelspares Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Well done on aquiring a rare piece of railway history Do they both still work? Anyone ever found a br blue princess yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The later model is missing the spring/brushes on the motor. No idea whether the earlier one works or not - I haven't had a layout set up for about a decade now! I live abroad but right now am visiting my parents in the UK. Actually today their neighbour saw me walking the dog and asked me to fix an A1A-A1A diesel which needed some TLC. He found his son's old Tri-ang stuff in the garage and set it up on a board in his spare room, so when I take the diesel back maybe I'll take a few of mine over to test. I found about 5 silver Transcontinental diesels I'd forgotten about buying, plus a 'B unit' and several dummy units. Maybe I should lend him some! I did also find a ton of Super 4 track. Maybe I should commandeer the dining room table... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 What was the story with blue Princess class locomotives? I think I saw somewhere that a couple had been found and were shown at a Tri-ang meeting somewhere. Were they later versions rather than early ones? Is anything much known about them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 I bought the Princess that the same seller was auctioning - a slightly more affordable £10.50 secured a 1952 Tri-ang Princess with original body moulding (not the second type used from 1953) in a Rovex Plastics flip-top lid box. That sits nicely between my plunger example and the early suppressor fitted one. Well done on the Jinty, it's obviously hard to tell what needs to be done to restore it but ideally for the chassis you want to ensure you use the correct 1953 components - if you need any help working out what they are let me know! One thing I have discovered is that the first Jintys (the ones with the cut-away area below the boiler) have their chassis halves screwed together the opposite way round to subsequent ones. It's not simply a matter of the screws being put in from the opposite side - the right hand side chassis plate is countersunk rather than the left hand side. Re the blue Princess, it would be useful to see some photographic evidence as that is the kind of thing where rumour quickly turns to myth. Up until 1969, Princesses were always offered in contemporary (or at least the most recent) liveries. Logic would dictate therefore that any blue trial would be from 1952 or 53 in cellulose acetate....but who knows? BTW for testing Tri-ang locos I heartily recommend investing in a Hornby Rolling Road with a suitable controller. The rollers are quite happy with early deep flanges and it makes fettling very old mechanisms so much easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmodelspares Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 From the post on the triang website pat hammond got to have a look at them as their was 2 princesses found these were molded blue acetate with black painted areas where their should be. Even heard of a br 2-6-2t prototype being made by a toolmaker for triang in brass which he has seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 From the post on the triang website pat hammond got to have a look at them as their was 2 princesses found these were molded blue acetate with black painted areas where their should be. Even heard of a br 2-6-2t prototype being made by a toolmaker for triang in brass which he has seen. That may well have been Martin Evans who also designed live steam locos for Model Engineer magazine.I believe he was employed by Rovex for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 andyman7 - one of the most interesting Princess locos I have is one with the non-removable motor (i.e. directly after the plunger ones, before the X03 motor was fitted). Yours may well be the same if it's from 1952 and has the original body moulding. I have a number of early black ones but I think the pre-X03 motor version is fairly rare. Thanks for the offer of help with Jinty parts - I actually have a couple of donors. It seems more or less complete, just annoying that the body has that chunk missing... Blue princess pictures are here: http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/Tri-ang%202011/Tri-ang%202011%20Specials%20T.html This is obviously Hornby era, when they re-issued the Princess. I was only aware of black and slightly rarer green versions (I have one of the former, which would've been supplied in a red Hornby box - I think the green ones might've been mail order only). Maybe a few were produced in blue, or perhaps it was a prototype that escaped the factory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmodelspares Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Rareties turn up on the market a few year ago batman scalextric models were turning up in green plastic instead of black. This blue one looks like a preproduction one around 1970-1974 because the wheels are black and the the rear pony is the last type made for the lms marron princess, br green and br black which oddily enough when Hornby issued the first tender drive princesses they released two of these with with the same old rnumber in the R50 series! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanelpus Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Yes, funny things do turn up from time to time. I once had a '52 Tri-ang Lizzie with the sintered wheels and the non-removable post-zenith motor. I swapped it many years ago for a Dublo Co-Bo....ahh well. Speaking of sintered wheels, I happened across a black Tri-ang B12 with sintered wheels rather than spoked ones. I know a photo of one with sintered wheels appeared in the Railway Modeller when it was first released in the early 60's, but as far as I understand it was only released with spoked wheels. I'll post a photo when I get the chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 7, 2013 Author Share Posted December 7, 2013 andyman7 - one of the most interesting Princess locos I have is one with the non-removable motor (i.e. directly after the plunger ones, before the X03 motor was fitted). Yours may well be the same if it's from 1952 and has the original body moulding. I have a number of early black ones but I think the pre-X03 motor version is fairly rare. Thanks for the offer of help with Jinty parts - I actually have a couple of donors. It seems more or less complete, just annoying that the body has that chunk missing... Blue princess pictures are here: http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/Tri-ang%202011/Tri-ang%202011%20Specials%20T.html This is obviously Hornby era, when they re-issued the Princess. I was only aware of black and slightly rarer green versions (I have one of the former, which would've been supplied in a red Hornby box - I think the green ones might've been mail order only). Maybe a few were produced in blue, or perhaps it was a prototype that escaped the factory. Yes, as already notes, that blue one is from the 1970s runs. According to the 1979 Hornby Book of Trains, the 1970s black and green Princesses appear to very much have been a nostalgic 'last hurrah' for the very first Rovex loco. The R053 green one is stated as mail order only but does turn up quite often, I've seen it with the Triang-Hornby tray/sleeve box and the one I have is in the 1973/4 lift-off lid box. The black 70s version also came in the 1974/1975 larger orange box with foam tray. Regarding the early Princesses, yes, the non-plunger version with non-removable motor is hard to find. The pace of minor and not-so-minor technical channges was so rapid between 1950-55 that there are myriad variations in assembly, and to be honest, Pat's book really only skims the surface of this. The earliest service sheets are from 1955 so if one is trying to ensure that a loco has all the right parts (as opposed to simply ensuring that it functions) it can be quite a task. The X04 motor itself exists without front or rear felt pads, with front pads only, and finally with both front and rear pads. The front brass bearing mounting can be open at the sides, or at the top. Early pickup wires are soldered directly to the r/h brush, then there is the early thin spade connector, and finally the long lived brass tab connector; early insulating sleeves are short and black; the first suppressors were the flat tan ones with choke, then came some oddities before the ceramic tube became standard. After all these years, finding a complete unadulterated original loco is quite hard if one is looking for reference points. Even better if it has a dated leaflet! By the way the earliest dated documents I have are factory handwritten with dates - I have a couple covering 1953 and 1954. The first stamped one I have is from early 1955. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I think you're right - there are probably 100 variations if we get too deep into it! Pat's book does skim over it, but he also wrote an article for MRE on the subject a good few years ago. I might just have that issue still somewhere, it must be 15 years ago at least. Also funny you should say that about originality - the sintered iron chassis I have with the non-removable motor was fitted to a later body with the reduced size cabside numbers. As a boy I turned the wheels down in my dad's Myford lathe so they would work on scale track. Back then I could spend £11 of my pocket money on an old Tri-ang loco (I remember that's how much I paid for it) and make it work, or save for ages and ages to ever afford a later/new one!! My early leaflets also have handwritten dates/codes. They handwrote in the early sets too, which had instructions glued to the underside of the lid. I have a few of them, I'm sure you've seen them yourself. I also have a boxed black Princess which was finished on 28/12/63 - 50 years ago this winter! It is barely used, has all the paperwork and still has plastic 'flashing' on the tender wheels from the mould. I think I paid £21.50 for it, but that also was a very long time ago! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmodelspares Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The jinty i feel was one of the most sucessful triang steam engines apart from the princess, which itself lent its chassis to brit,bullied. the jinty its chassis led to the eventual creation of a representation of the big four 0-6-0 tanks by the use of the later 50's chassis. and in many ways a better chassis than the sspp one introduced after Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 Yet another badly photographed 'Buy-it-now' Jinty on ebay produced a very early example - the first I have found without a suppressor fitted. The numeral transfers are slightly different to my other examples with very pronounced loops to the '6' - they match exactly the style shown in the original 1953 Model Railway News review sample (it's reproduced in Pat Hammond's Vol 1, with the info that 'Railway Modeller' got one with the 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' transfers), Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have a Princess with plastic wheels and plunger pick ups, is this of any interest? Slightly warped - it spent its early life in Trinidad. Also a warped 47606. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have a Princess with plastic wheels and plunger pick ups, is this of any interest? Slightly warped - it spent its early life in Trinidad. Also a warped 47606. Paul They're all of interest. just not usually very valuable (which is why its fun collecting them!) All early ones are warped due to the unstable nature of the cellulose acetate plastic used pre-1956, but if the bodies are intact (i.e. no broken footsteps or cracks) and the logos/numbers are good they will find a home. Does the Princess have the tender too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.