Lever Numbering - Wynsloe Road

[The Stationmaster]

 

I have a minimal amount of wiring left to do on the layout itself before I can turn the boards over and re-connect them all. The servos are all in situ for the points and the MERG servo controller boards have been installed for both the points and the signals. I have one spare port on an existing servo controller board to which I can connect an additional signal if required but I then need to adjust some of the other port allocations. I hope to start wiring up the lever frame (i.e. switch panel) later today if things go to plan.

 

Adding the extra signal means adding a further switch and the switch bank wiring could be further affected if I need to adjust the turnout numbers.

 

I'm minded to restore the yellow disc (as No. 20) to the bottom siding, leaving No. 19 to apply solely to the upper siding. The hand worked points will then be worked by (otherwise spare) lever No. 21. I'm still not sure though whether the hand worked point should actually be a hand worked crossover which is released (for use as required) by No. 18 being reversed. It may or may not be totally prototypical but it seems more logical to me and possibly better understood by any lay person working the layout.

 

I shall also add the STOP on the outlet from the engine spur - does anyone have a picture of such a board that would have been in use in the 1960s?

 

Thanks once again and please don't fight on my behalf.

 

Apart from the added levers (and extra wiring) I think that is a sensible way to go - 18 reverse would would definitely need to release 21 in your revision and I think doing away with a handworked point in that situation is sensible (in prototype terms) in view of the level of movements you have in mind.

 

And - you might be pleased to hear - as you will have a yellow disc reading from the 'back siding' there is no need for a STOP board on the line from the turntable.  Just to help understanding on this point the 'back siding' (as I have termed it for convenience) is not under the control of the Signalman and he would need 'someone's' permission to reverse the points because that 'someone' can be freely making movements past the yellow ground disc when it is at danger and without any need to tell the Signalman what they are doing or want to do until such time as they wish to come out of the 'back siding' towards the Down Platform line.  Basically a subtlety in principle which isn't really explained in the Rules etc and never has been but all too logical once you think it through - and basically understood by staff local to a location to the extent there was no need for any Local Instruction to make what was, in reality, a basic principle (I have just checked two busy locations which had yellow ground signals and neither is mentioned in the relevant Appendix).  Plus of course it's nearer enough to the signalbox for a shout to do  

[Ray H]

 

The best laid plans of mice and men etc.. During the course of installing the servos and connecting them to the "lever frame" I suddenly became aware that what was supposed to have been a hand worked point at the entrance to the down sidings is in fact on the running line as the turn-off to the right on the 3-way point is actually before the turn-off to the left and not the other way round as I had incorrectly and repeatedly shown it in earlier diagrams. As a result I have converted the crossover to worked as I could see little option in doing otherwise.

 

I've added the Stop board that Keith mentioned on the exit from the loco spur - does anyone know what they looked like back in the 60s? - and I've adjusted the Up Yard end of No. 2 points.

[Grovenor]

As the Stationmaster mentioned, now that 20 is a separate signal from 19 and can therefore be yellow the stop board is not needed. Just my view but I would also re-arrange the  numbers a bit, eg change points 21 to 19, signal 19 to 20 and signal 20 to 21.Or at least swap 20 and 21 so it matches with 18/19.

Regards

Keith

[bécasse]

Having been previously unaware that the entry to the two down sidings was by a tandem 3-way point where up trains departing the down platform would have to pass over both sets of switches, I agree that the latest proposal for 18/19/20/21 is the only way of doing it. I am not sure that I totally agree with Keith Norgrove's suggestions for neatening the lever numbering for in reality there would have had to have been a lever for an fpl as well and a signal-point-fpl-point-siignal sequence would have been logical.

 

And that brings me to two minor technical snags with both 18 and 21 being worked from the box. The first is that being a LMS line two arms (or yet another indicator, god forbid) would strictly be required for shunt 17 to indicate which siding the route has been set for. Given that the similar requirement for exiting the up sidings has been ignored, I think it is going to be easiest to ignore this - after all, movements past 17 are going to be from a stand and therefore at low speed (and, for example, the SR would only have provided a single shunt signal anyway). The other snag is that bolting two fpl stretcher bars which are only a very short distance apart is a bit of a pig in reality, however there were places where it was done and at least they would have both been worked by the same lever. I strongly suspect that (two different) track circuits would have been used to lock the fpl on this tandem point (18/21) and the fpls on both ends of the double slip (10/11) rather than fouling bars.

 

Finally, I have been criticised for suggesting that selection on 11 points could be used to select the indicator on running signal 6. While my main reason for suggesting it was pragmatism for the model and I agree that selection would be more usually found in connection with shunt signals, my reasons for believing that it might have been acceptable here on the real thing, if the only alternative was the expense of extending the frame to provide an extra lever, are as follows:

Pulling signal 6 off for either route would require exactly the same locking (with the exception of the lay of point 11 itself), viz:

..fpl bolts in on point 11

..points 10 reversed

..points 18 and 21 normal and fpl bolts in

..down inner and outer homes on both routes normal (so that down trains cannot approach the conflicting move)

..possibly up inner home (4) normal (so that up trains cannot approach the conflicting move - signals 5 and 7 would automatically be locked normal by points 10 reversed)

So pulling signal 6 would provide all the required frame interlocking for either route including locking 11 in one position or the other by virtue of its fpl.

However, even with this, using selection is only acceptable because 1) signal 6 could only authorise a "standing start" and thus low speed move, 2) the speed limit over both routes would be the same (probably 15 or even 10 mph) and 3) there are advance starters on both routes.

[Ray H]

 

And this gents is what I have ended up with thanks to all your various contributions. The switch bank (in lieu of levers) is in position and the switches numbered. The points are all operational using servos and the servo controllers are in place for the signals when I get to the position of building them. I shall run with the (micro toggle) switch bank at least for the while in case anything crops up that requires alteration. However, in due course I am hopeful of replacing the switch bank with a lever frame (but I shan't go as far as fitting mechanical interlocking).

 

I thank you all for your assistance and for those interested and not aware thereof I am keeping a separate thread running relating to the general progress of the layout.

 

Thanks once again.