Re-Mapping function key sounds on Zimo Sound Decoders

[tender]

I have a few Zimo Steam Sound decoders but the function button sounds are inconsistent. I would like to remap some of these so that, for example, all locos have coal shovelling on the same function button.

 

I've looked at the ZIMO manual it it would apparently be fairly easy to do this by changing a few CV values in the CV513-572 range. (unless i'm getting something very wrong)

 

I have loaded up the MX648R decoder default  CV's (as supplied) into DecoderPro but under the CV's tab the range of CV's only goes up to 428.

 

There are two other tabs in decoderPro that are greyed out, 'sound' on the bottom row of tabs and 'Sound Level' of the middle row of tabs.

A further 'Sound' tab on the top row is enabled but doesn't related to the function key mapping of sounds.

I'm using a SPROG II in service programming mode.

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Ray.

[pauliebanger]

Open Decoder Pro 3.

 

Open 'Actions' menu

 

Open last entry 'Run Script'

 

Scroll to last entry ' Zimo_pseudo_programmer.py'

 

Double click to run the selection, and follow the on-screen prompts.

 

Good luck,

 

Paul

[RedgateModels]

Noted

[tender]

Hi Paul.

That's great, I did find the script functions in DecoderPro today but couldn't get either of the Zimo ones to work.

It's just occurred to me that (after reading the Zimo manual) I probably had the Sprog II in the wrong mode, at least that's what I hope, will give it another try tonight in command station mode.

 

Ray.

Edited December 19, 2013 by tender

[Nigelcliffe]

Ray, must use command station mode in Sprog for this to work. The script uses ops-mode programming. Also remember to turn on the track power before trying the script.

 

Nigel ( author of the Zimo scripts )

[tender]

Thanks for the conformation Nigel, I did see you name in the script so was half expecting a post from you.

Been tied up this evening so will give it try in the morning.

 

Ray.

[pauliebanger]

Been tied up this evening...

 

Ray.

 

Makes a nice change from railway modelling now and again! Ha ha.

 

Paul

[tender]

Hi Paul/Nigel

 

Have put the Sprog in command Staion mode and the Script  is now running ok. Many thanks for your input, something to play with over Christmas, at least with my Zimo chipped steam loco's.

 

I have a couple of Steam Loksound decoders as well so will have to investigate doing the same with them.

 

 

Ray.

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi Paul/Nigel

 

Have put the Sprog in command Staion mode and the Script  is now running ok. Many thanks for your input, something to play with over Christmas, at least with my Zimo chipped steam loco's.

 

I have a couple of Steam Loksound decoders as well so will have to investigate doing the same with them.

 

 

Ray.

 

ESU LokSound decoders do NOT use the same methods for changing function key allocations to sound.   If you try the Zimo scripts on a LokSound, the best that happens is nothing, the worst is you make random changes to the decoder which will be difficult to recover from. 

 

Changing function key allocation in LokSound V3.5 decoders is fine with JMRI.  

But, function mapping in a LokSound V4 decoders doesn't currently work within JMRI (because there are 640 different CV's for function mapping, or 5200 check-boxes, so new code is being designed to handle things in a totally different manner).   You can set the function mapping with manual CV changes, but you'll need to work out the CV's to change yourself first from the ESU LokSound manuals.

 

There is a new release of JMRI, version 3.6 was made available yesterday.   I recommend upgrading.

 

 

- Nigel

[tender]

Hi Nigel, I didn't expect the Zimo scripts to work with the Loksound, but thanks for the warning anyway.

I currently only have one Loksound V4 with a steam project so will probably match the Zimo and Loksound 3.5's to that if changing the mapping on the V4's problematic.

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the new release of JMRI will upgrade tonight.

 

Ray.

[tender]

Just uploaded the latest JMRI update (3.6) only to find that the Zimo_pseudo_programmer script doesn't open. The Zimo_function_programmer script seems ok. Back to square one.

 

Ray.

 

Edit update:

 

Just rolled back to version 3.4 and it now seems to be working.

Edited December 21, 2013 by tender

[Nigelcliffe]

Just uploaded the latest JMRI update (3.6) only to find that the Zimo_pseudo_programmer script doesn't open. The Zimo_function_programmer script seems ok. Back to square one.

 

Ray.

 

Edit update:

 

Just rolled back to version 3.4 and it now seems to be working.

 

Ray,  thanks for the bug report.   I've found it, and if you want to make a local fix on JMRI 3.6, its a very simple text edit change. 

 

 

Assuming Windows,  go to via "C:" then "program files" (if running 64bit, then its Program files (x86) ), then "jmri".   Find the folder "jython".   You need to edit the permissions on this folder to allow your user name to write to the directory.  Enter Jython, and change the permissions on the script to allow "write" to the file.   Open the file in a text editor. 

 

Line 395 is a comment line, it contains the word "start" within some quote marks.   Those quote marks are non-standard and should be deleted.  Save the file and all is fixed. 

 

Optionally reverse the permission changes you made to allow editing. 

 

 

I'll also ask for an the update with the JMRI project team.

 

 

- Nigel

[tender]

Thanks Nigel, that seems to have done the trick.

 

Ray.

[Nigelcliffe]

Good to hear it is working Ray.

 

The updated file is now available from:   www.jmri.org/jython/

The JMRI 3.6 release note updated to include a warning about this script and three others which suffer the same issue.  

[Piemanlarger]

Right Xmas out the way so i have a few weeks spare for railways.

 

I have a Zimo 645r sound decoder with digitrains std4 sounds on it.

Superb sounds and back up from digitains, it has definatley moved me back onto steam sounds after a few years, that together with the better speakers that can now be fitted into tank engines

 

My problem however comes with needeing an iditos guide to re-mappping a Zimo sound chip.

I tried reading the above, but got lost! Yes, i need that much of a guide!

 

I have only ever prio to this had Loksound decoders, for which i have a lokprogrammer that has only ever been used for moving the sounds from one function button to another, so each chip has the same sounds on the same numbered button, ie brake realese on f 5 for example, essential for exhibition use!

 

So, using my dynamis hanset, is there an easy way to move Zimo sounds from one F key to another.?

 

Specifically

 

  

           Currenty

 

F1       Sound on/off     (Fine, leave as is)    

F2       Med whistle      (Fine)

F3      Guards Whistle  (ok where it is for now)

F4      Short "Toot" Whistle (is there a way from removing the automatic "toot" everytime the loco starts from stop. I want to drive and sometimes i dont want to "toot")

F5     Driving mode (the best thing on steam sound I have ever heard, wish ever steam soud chip had it - Fine where it is)

F6     Shoveling coal (fine where it is)

F7     Injectors           (Fine where it is)

F8     West pump  > replace with Flange squeal sound from F11

F9     ? No sound  . replace with brake noise from F13

F10   Blowing off           (Fine where it is)

F11   Flange squeal   <  replace with  Cyl cock short

F12   Clickity Clack        < replace with  cyl cock med

F13   Brake noise        < replace with cyl cock long

F14   Water filling          Fine where it is

F15   cyl cock med        < Replace with coupling

F16   Coupling        (No sound)

F17  cyl cock long   No sound)

F18  Cyl cock short  (No sound)

F19  no sound

F20  no sound

 

I dont have need for the rail clickity clack sound.

 

Finally, i believe its cv 267 for synching the steam chuffs. currently the chip is in a hrnby 72xx at about 7 chuffs instead of 4.

[pauliebanger]

Right Xmas out the way so i have a few weeks spare for railways.

 

I have a Zimo 645r sound decoder with digitrains std4 sounds on it.

Superb sounds and back up from digitains, it has definatley moved me back onto steam sounds after a few years, that together with the better speakers that can now be fitted into tank engines

 

My problem however comes with needeing an iditos guide to re-mappping a Zimo sound chip.

I tried reading the above, but got lost! Yes, i need that much of a guide!

 

I have only ever prio to this had Loksound decoders, for which i have a lokprogrammer that has only ever been used for moving the sounds from one function button to another, so each chip has the same sounds on the same numbered button, ie brake realese on f 5 for example, essential for exhibition use!

 

So, using my dynamis hanset, is there an easy way to move Zimo sounds from one F key to another.?

 

Specifically

 

  

           Currenty

 

F1       Sound on/off     (Fine, leave as is)    

F2       Med whistle      (Fine)

F3      Guards Whistle  (ok where it is for now)

F4      Short "Toot" Whistle (is there a way from removing the automatic "toot" everytime the loco starts from stop. I want to drive and sometimes i dont want to "toot")

F5     Driving mode (the best thing on steam sound I have ever heard, wish ever steam soud chip had it - Fine where it is)

F6     Shoveling coal (fine where it is)

F7     Injectors           (Fine where it is)

F8     West pump  > replace with Flange squeal sound from F11

F9     ? No sound  . replace with brake noise from F13

F10   Blowing off           (Fine where it is)

F11   Flange squeal   <  replace with  Cyl cock short

F12   Clickity Clack        < replace with  cyl cock med

F13   Brake noise        < replace with cyl cock long

F14   Water filling          Fine where it is

F15   cyl cock med        < Replace with coupling

F16   Coupling        (No sound)

F17  cyl cock long   No sound)

F18  Cyl cock short  (No sound)

F19  no sound

F20  no sound

 

I dont have need for the rail clickity clack sound.

 

Finally, i believe its cv 267 for synching the steam chuffs. currently the chip is in a hrnby 72xx at about 7 chuffs instead of 4.

 

Unfortunately, the shortcomings of the Dynamis are going to make this far more difficult for you than they should be, but I will try my best to help.

 

The Digitrains Standard 4MT is one of my sound projects so you stand at least a fighting chance.

 

Ideally the ability to read CVs and /or to connect to a computer (for Decoder Pro) would simplify things, but your Dynamis has neither of these.

 

So, any complications will be down to your controller, not the ZIMO decoder which has the ability to overcome most of the potential problems.

 

Let's tackle some of the easier issues first to build your confidence.

 

Automatic Start Whistle. The simplest way to deal with this will be to turn the volume down to off. It will then be easy to reinstate by raising the volume. (We'll deal with sound removal and re-assignment later, the same principles apply to all sounds).

 

Reduce start whistle volume CV582 = 1  (values in the range 2~255 will raise volume again). I'm hoping the Dynamis can access CV582.

 

Note: On real railways, it is compulsory I believe to sound an audible warning before moving any vehicle. This is for safety reasons to allow pedestrians to be aware of impending movement and to take appropriate action. ie shift out of the way!

 

 

F5, this simulates the difference in sound between long and short cut-off, basically the amount of steam allowed into the cylinders. This feature is on all my steam sound projects (and has been for the last 4 years or so), so any of my projects from Digitrains will have this feature. (not all the steam projects at Digitrains are my work. Others do not have this feature. If it's important to you, check before purchase.

 

Chuff frequency. You need to set this for each model due to the variances possible.

 

Set speed step to about 10 (out of 128). Use Programming On the Main (POM) CV267 = X

 

This is where it would be helpful to be able to 'read' the existing values......

 

Now, by default, X is set at 58. (the range is 1~255). If, at this speed, there are too many chuffs per revolution you will need to increase the value of X until a satisfactory result is achieved. Try CV267 = 75 and note the changed rate. If still too many chuffs, increase further and repeat. At some point, the rate will then be too slow. Having noted the values you have used in CV267, you can now make smaller adjustments down or up.

 

Sound re-assignment is done by assigning a sound to an F key, not moving or re-mapping from one to another. It is a very powerful system, which does not rely on any pre-knowledge of how the decoder was originally programmed (though, obviously, in this case I do have that knowledge).

 

Unfortunately, it can seem a bit cumbersome until you are familiar with the technique, and again, your Dynamis will be less than helpful, sorry. Nigel Cliffe has written a script for Decoder Pro which puts the ZIMO 'pseudo-programming' instructions into a nice graphic interface which is, perhaps, easier for a novice to tackle. But you need to be able to connect to a computer.

 

The ZIMO pseudo-programming to assign sounds to F keys can be performed on any NMRA compliant DCC controller, and is done using POM so you can hear the results before 'saving' the new assignment.

 

I have to leave for now, so try out the above. I'll be back later.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

I haven't forgotten about this but I will be posting a full description in a new thread shortly.

 

Piemanlarger,

 

Have you tried the changes I suggested above? What was the outcome, please?

 

Paul

[Piemanlarger]

Hi Paul, much disruption over Xmas! sorry thaught I had thanked you for the reply

 

 

Only goit as far as doing the chuffs thanks. I will p.m. you with some more Q's regarding further Digitraons chips soon.

[Piemanlarger]

Wow time flies

 

4 years and still not got round to sorting!

[pauliebanger]

Wow time flies

 

4 years and still not got round to sorting!

 

Your not kidding about time flying.

 

Plus 4 years advancement in sound projects to catch up with. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Piemanlarger]

Your not kidding about time flying.

 

Plus 4 years advancement in sound projects to catch up with. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

 

Good point Paul and one that seems a bigger mine field than when I started with sound many years ago! 

 

I cant help but think, given I am not sure what project is on the sound chip, that best bet is probably to send it for a re-blow anyway?