5Bel Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Hi All, The next project onto the workbench is a DC Kits 2 Epb that I am modifying into a Tyneside version. The extra long guards van is taken from a Replica suburban Brake second and grafted into the DC kits body. The smaller route indicator is a piece of plasticard fitted in to the original aperture. I have some front window surrounds from NNK to fit, this will give me the correct dimensions for the indicator box. The underframe is cobbled together using Southern Pride bits and scratchbuilt boxes. The resistance boxes being a combination of both. I got all the positioning details from copying the Bachmann model as they share the same 1951 pattern layout. While no where near the standards of Mr Parks' masterpieces they give the general impression. The dummy motor bogie has been detailed with various brass and plastic bits, with the shoe beam from NNK. The model will be unpowered and will run coupled to my Bachmann 2Epb. I am going to finish it in green with a full yellow end as 5783. Next up is putting all the roof gubbins on, photos of which are quite rare. Cheers for now, Ian. Edited January 1, 2021 by 5Bel 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ian. Distance between the opening for the Guard's doors and the leading edge of that odd window is 73" give or take .25". Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Dave, Thanks for the info. I have measured mine and it turns out I am 2mm short! I am too far in to change it now. If I remember correctly I started this conversion before I got the Goulding book, so worked from photos. The book isn't correct on some things but in this case he was right. Cheers for now, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ian. Last shot is for comparison only. Have enhanced shots to bring out the detail. As per Bachmann Dave 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Dave, Those photos are brilliant, just what I needed.Thanks for posting them. The position of that window is noticeably different from mine even though it is only 2mm, I think I am going to have to re model it now I know about it. The roof photos are particularly useful showing the difference between the two types. Thanks again for the photos. Cheers for now, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi 5Bel, That 2-EPB is looking good. If I ,maybe, a little pedantic here... Don't forget that the cab's sides' sliding windows are of different lengths, as shown in Dave's excellent photos. By the way, if it's not too late, I've got a series of photos showing a Std. 2-EPB's u/frame. If they would come in handy ?, I'll post them on here. All the best. Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Frank, Any photos of the underframe will be gratefully received, particularly the bogies. I will be modifying Replica BR1's as there are no readily available examples. I am still looking into ways of modifying the cabside windows. I have some NNK surrounds which I may be able to utilise. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ian, Looking very good. I was only recently thinking about how to model some departmental versions using these motorcoaches. Good luck with your unit. Dave, Your pictures are excellent as usual. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Dave, Those photos are brilliant, just what I needed.Thanks for posting them. The position of that window is noticeably different from mine even though it is only 2mm, I think I am going to have to re model it now I know about it. The roof photos are particularly useful showing the difference between the two types. Thanks again for the photos. Cheers for now, Ian Ian. PM me if you would like the full size scans. Easier to see the detail! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Ian, The work so far looks very neat. I would never have guessed where the Replica and DC Kits' parts were joined on the van end of the coach. How will you couple this unit to your Bachmann one? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi All, Thanks for the comments. There have been some interesting liveries on these units once they passed into departmental service, just a bit late for my period though. Colin, I haven't yet thought about how I am going to couple the units yet, probably using Kadee's as the Bachmann unit has the NEM pocket already. I am now off into the loft to find another Replica BS bodyshell to see if I can rectify that window position. Cheers for now, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi All, Thanks for the comments. There have been some interesting liveries on these units once they passed into departmental service, just a bit late for my period though. Colin, I haven't yet thought about how I am going to couple the units yet, probably using Kadee's as the Bachmann unit has the NEM pocket already. I am now off into the loft to find another Replica BS bodyshell to see if I can rectify that window position. Cheers for now, Ian Ian and all. I'm not sure if I have given this tip on here before and I have no wish to teach anyone to suck eggs so appologies if I am doing either here. On BR Standard Southern EMUs of the suburban variety, a lot of roof info can be 'calculated' from the roof panels. (Other than over the guard's doors) I have attached a shot I have enhanced to show the weld lines. You will see that there is one each side of the door. A narrow panel shall we call it. Then a large panel until the next doorway where you will find another narrow panel, etc., etc. So, looking at the 'paneling' you can often calculate the position of light tops, vents, conduit cleats etc. Cheers and sorry if you already know all this. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Ian, Re. the cab sliding windows: why not see if Pheonix-Precision have any spare etches from the NN Kits 2 EPB kit. Perhaps Ceptic would confirm that the Bulleid EPB and BR standard EPB stock were the same. (The Tyneside units were built before the Bulleid ones, so there is a good chance that the frames were standard parts.) Looking at Dave's as always excellent photos, it has stuck that there is far more conduit on the roofs of these units than other EPB stock. It looks as though fittings such as lamp tops and roof ventilators are centred over doorways when viewed from the side. So the main calculation is to work out how far each item/conduit is from the roof's longitudinal centre line and the rest is relatively easy to work out. Good luck with all that! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2014 Just a random thought that occurs to me looking at this thread: why did BR(SR) keep the larger guard's/luggage compartment on these units rather than converting them into an extra seating area? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Ian, Re. the cab sliding windows: why not see if Pheonix-Precision have any spare etches from the NN Kits 2 EPB kit. Perhaps Ceptic would confirm that the Bulleid EPB and BR standard EPB stock were the same. (The Tyneside units were built before the Bulleid ones, so there is a good chance that the frames were standard parts.) Looking at Dave's as always excellent photos, it has stuck that there is far more conduit on the roofs of these units than other EPB stock. It looks as though fittings such as lamp tops and roof ventilators are centred over doorways when viewed from the side. So the main calculation is to work out how far each item/conduit is from the roof's longitudinal centre line and the rest is relatively easy to work out. Good luck with all that! Colin Having looked at lots of 'suburban style' units, changes seem to progress with build dates. Less and less items on the roofs as time goes by until you get to the last of the Haps where they have none at all. Hope the scans below help. The sketches were made on return home from forages to sidings and depots. Some measurements vary slightly due to measuring across the arc of the roof. Still, an inch is only .33mm. Reply here for explanations or PM me for full size scans to be sent to you by 'WeTransfer' Hope they help. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Ian, Re. the cab sliding windows: why not see if Pheonix-Precision have any spare etches from the NN Kits 2 EPB kit. Perhaps Ceptic would confirm that the Bulleid EPB and BR standard EPB stock were the same. (The Tyneside units were built before the Bulleid ones, so there is a good chance that the frames were standard parts.) Looking at Dave's as always excellent photos, it has stuck that there is far more conduit on the roofs of these units than other EPB stock. It looks as though fittings such as lamp tops and roof ventilators are centred over doorways when viewed from the side. So the main calculation is to work out how far each item/conduit is from the roof's longitudinal centre line and the rest is relatively easy to work out. Good luck with all that! Colin Hi Colin, I have just looked in my spares box and I have a set of scale window surrounds, it is amazing what can happen if you look hard enough!!I had a look at the NNK website, they make some nice EMU buffers and a compressor and cradle. There is a lot of stuff on the roofs, but with the help of Dave's drawings I should be able to get it right. Dave thank you for posting the scans, I have also e-mailed you. I don't know why the big guards vans were kept, there is no explanation in any of the books I have. Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Hi 5Bel. These set of pics show the RH (Off side) u/frames of Cl.416/2, No.6239, starting with the DMBSO. (They may have been better in reverse order ?). To save confusing myself, I'll try posting these in some sort of order. The off side pics of the DTSo are to follow Edited January 18, 2014 by Ceptic 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dave, I always positioned roof vents and lighting conduit light fittings centered over the doors. Looks like that is right from your pics. Colin, Not sure what you mean by "more conduits than other EPBs". Tyneside and standard BR versions (like early HAPs) were all 1951 type stock with roof mounted lights and control and other roof conduits. Later BR 4EPBs were 1957 stock (like other batches of HAPs) which dispensed with roof fittings except vents. Ceptic, Love your pics of the EPB. Cheers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dave, I always positioned roof vents and lighting conduit light fittings centered over the doors. Looks like that is right from your pics. Colin, Not sure what you mean by "more conduits than other EPBs". Tyneside and standard BR versions (like early HAPs) were all 1951 type stock with roof mounted lights and control and other roof conduits. Later BR 4EPBs were 1957 stock (like other batches of HAPs) which dispensed with roof fittings except vents. Ceptic, Love your pics of the EPB. Cheers. I mat be wrong on the 2EPBs, I was thinking of the 2HAPs, first all pipes, then just the tank filler, then no pipes and re-shaped driver's front windows. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Dave, I always positioned roof vents and lighting conduit light fittings centered over the doors. Looks like that is right from your pics. Colin, Not sure what you mean by "more conduits than other EPBs". Tyneside and standard BR versions (like early HAPs) were all 1951 type stock with roof mounted lights and control and other roof conduits. Later BR 4EPBs were 1957 stock (like other batches of HAPs) which dispensed with roof fittings except vents. Ceptic, Love your pics of the EPB. Cheers. Hi Paul, It looks as if there is some extra conduit on the van end that I hadn't realised was there. (That's what I meant!) All the best, Colin Edited January 17, 2014 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) The DTSo. Other sides to follow. All the best, Frank. Edited January 18, 2014 by Ceptic 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2014 Just a random thought that occurs to me looking at this thread: why did BR(SR) keep the larger guard's/luggage compartment on these units rather than converting them into an extra seating area? Probably because the cost of conversion was too high, for limited benefit. I travelled in these units on the South London Line, and the only time they were full to bursting with passengers was when the service was screwed up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hi Frank, Thanks for posting the excellent photos, they will be a real help. I have the DMBS just about right and the photos of the trailing bogies will help me to do the BR1 mods. The unit at the moment is sat on the workbench with it's new guards van inserted and the joins filled. Unfortunately I won't be able to work on it until thursday due to work. Such is life!! Cheers for now, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Hi all. The DTSo's other side. DMBSO to follow. All the best. Edited January 18, 2014 by Ceptic 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) The DMBSO. Excuse my faffing about (Editing), I found a couple of extra pics, subsequently, knowing my MO, I put them in the wrong post !. Now sorted. There are a couple more, showing some u/frame innards, which I'll post later. All the best. Edited January 18, 2014 by Ceptic 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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