Bachmann Mk1 Pullman roof colours

[84A]

I have found a few threads on this topic online, however wanted to ask again to see if anyone had experience in doing this. Basically, I have seven Mk1 Pullman's now. Originally, I had six, all with white roofs. However, recently I bought another, Falcon, with a grey roof. I understand that, in real life, the white roofs did not last very long and were soon darkened. Having seen the post by Silver Sidelines here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/880/entry-9868-no-holds-barred-addendum-to-my-last-pullman-blog/

 

I'd like to repaint the six roofs I have to match the grey model, as the train assembled in the above blog entry looks brilliant. Has anyone actually repainted these roofs from white to grey, and if so which colour(s) did you use to do it? Did you try to match them up with existing Bachmann models, or will I have to repaint the grey one too to get them all the same? I'm airing on the side of caution a little, as I paid a fair bit for them and certainly wouldnt want to make a mess. I know the roof separates, and i'm perfectly OK getting them to this stage (as i've done it in the past). However, I wanted to ask so that if anyone actually had experience in doing this, I could learn a little and hopefully pick up on some issues before I even start.

 

Chris

[John Tomlinson]

My understanding is that the vehicles were outshopped with white roofs, as you say. It follows that the grey is the effect of dirt and weather, and not paint from a railway works. You might consider that if you are having grey, ie weathered roofs, that they'd look better if they differed a bit, as they got grubbier as time went on, which seems to be borne out by photographs. For what its worth, many photos of Mk1 Pullmans in service often seem to contain one white or nearly white roofed coach, ie one fresh from works, and that could be a nice touch in your model.

 

In terms of applying the finish, particularly for weathering, my own experience is that a sprayed finish wins hands down, but then that might be a comment on my brush painting!

 

John.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Definitely a little variation in the 'applied filth' is realistic. There is an invaluable 'Janes' album 'Eastern Steam in Colour' which covers the last half dozen years of steam on ER in sufficient depth to show the full range of coach roof appearance from newly painted to fully filthed. Not one of the Met-Camm Pullman cars has a clean roof, despite the pictures covering the time at which they were being introduced into service. I mix black, white and 'leather' to get a slightly brown tinged mid grey tone. Doing batches with different mixes delivers the range of variation when they are mixed up in trains.

[TheWeatheringMan]

My understanding is that the vehicles were outshopped with white roofs, as you say. It follows that the grey is the effect of dirt and weather, and not paint from a railway works. You might consider that if you are having grey, ie weathered roofs, that they'd look better if they differed a bit, as they got grubbier as time went on, which seems to be borne out by photographs. For what its worth, many photos of Mk1 Pullmans in service often seem to contain one white or nearly white roofed coach, ie one fresh from works, and that could be a nice touch in your model.

 

In terms of applying the finish, particularly for weathering, my own experience is that a sprayed finish wins hands down, but then that might be a comment on my brush painting!

 

John.

Hi,

Whilst I agree totally that there ought to be some variation in the finish of the roofs due to varying states of weathering I'm afraid that the above post is incorrect on the matter of painted roofs on Mk.1 Pullman vehicles.

It is correct that originally the cars were outshopped with white roofs and they did of course rapidly turn greyish due to weathering and smoke from locomotives.

However due precisely to the above reason the painting specification was changed after the vehicles had been in service just over two years to use grey paint when repainted at overhaul.

The correct colour then was the same standard roof grey specified for maroon coaches - this was listed in the BR paint catalogue as 'roof paint lead (maroon stock).

This colour is readily available from Railmatch or Precision.

Although a BR specification the colour did vary slightly so my advice would be keep the colour on the grey car and paint the others with the roof paint then weather each car individually to reflect the real thing.

Hope this helps.

Regards

[84A]

Thank you for the replies and apologies for the delay in response. The information is very helpful, and will see if I can obtain a tin of Railmatch/Precision roof paint lead and try it out. However, I own a rake of Bachmann Maroon Mk1's, and for me it seems as though the roof colour is much lighter than that of the Pullman? Therefore, I am surprised that you mention that the roof colours should (in theory) match. If anything, the roof colour of the blue/grey stock appears to be closer (but still not quite there), as shown for example here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75031-Bachmann-mk1-sleepers-correcting-the-roof-error/

 

Either way, initially i'll probably use a test vehicle, before moving on to the actual Pullman coaches and will try some weathering as mentioned to see if I can get anything close.

 

Best,

Chris 

[TheWeatheringMan]

Thank you for the replies and apologies for the delay in response. The information is very helpful, and will see if I can obtain a tin of Railmatch/Precision roof paint lead and try it out. However, I own a rake of Bachmann Maroon Mk1's, and for me it seems as though the roof colour is much lighter than that of the Pullman? Therefore, I am surprised that you mention that the roof colours should (in theory) match. If anything, the roof colour of the blue/grey stock appears to be closer (but still not quite there), as shown for example here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75031-Bachmann-mk1-sleepers-correcting-the-roof-error/

 

Either way, initially i'll probably use a test vehicle, before moving on to the actual Pullman coaches and will try some weathering as mentioned to see if I can get anything close.

 

Best,

Chris 

Hi,

The colours specified in the BR paint catalogue should in practise have remained consistent but in fact due to being supplied by several different manufacturers did have variations.

Another problem is that is was very common at works for different colours to be mixed when painting and running short of a given colour - if it looked like a drum of paint might not complete a job then often something else would be thrown in (perhaps residue from another can) to 'stretch' the amount. This of course would result in much variation of shade.

Again a paint shop would often 'use up' old stock as is or by doing the above so again its possible to find many examples of the wrong colour combinations on vehicles such as earlier roof grey with later body livery.

With roof colour unless one saw a vehicle brand new with its first coat of paint the variations are far too wide and weathering further complicates the matter.

Keep to a varying colour and you will achieve a far more realistic look.

 

As to the later blue-grey roof colour used on Corporate Livery vehicles this was a much darker and bluer colour taken from a different British Standard range and its use on Pullman vehicle SHOULD have been restricted to those repainted in the 'reversed' corporate livery or the Brighton Belle emu's.

It is unlikely to have been used on any umber and cream Pullman due to its later introduction - any Pullman gaining the later grey roof colour would have done so as part of its repaint in Rail Grey/Rail Blue corporate livery.

This is what should have happened but it cannot be totally ruled out that a Pullman vehicle did not get a roof repaint only whilst still in umber and cream livery after the introduction of the corporate livery and thus gained the corporate shade on umber and cream

I know personally that on the Worcester line (to days Cotswold Line) that due to s shortage of Mk.1 catering vehicles that at least one Pullman in umber and cream was used in a corporate livered set for a few weeks and this was a very late survivor in umber and cream so hears the definite possibility of its having carried corporate grey on the roof with umber and cream livery as roofs often needed a repaint earlier than the coach sides.

 

As to maroon RTR coaches there have been many colour variations to the roofs, many not strictly correct to BR specs. but ALL acceptable for the above reasons.

 

Hope this helps or is of interest to you.

 

Regards.