Using Easitrac

[PeteDavey]

I have a couple of questions regarding Easitrac which I am hoping some of the experience users on here may be able to answer for me. I am currently in the process of finalising my track layout in templot, it is my intention to use flat bottom rail and concrete sleepers. So for me this will involve copperclad turnouts using versaline chairs from the 2mm association and Easitrac for the plain line. Being a modern image layout it is my intention to add a third rail. After comparing the two rail profiles I have decided that code 40 bullhead rail would be best for this as it appears a little finer than the flat bottom rail to my eye. I was planning on either using the 2mm associations plastic chairs glued to every 4th sleeper to fit the third rail or the pinned variety from The finetrax range. So my first question(s) is/are which glue is most suitable for glueing chairs to Easitrac? Or does anyone have a better/more aesthetically pleasing way of mounting a third rail to Easitrac?

 

My next question is regarding the laying of Easitrac. With copperclad track, plain line can be build over a templot template forming a perfect curve to my specifications. The only way I can think of achieving this with Easitrac without having the paper between the sleepers and underlay/baseboard? My only idea was to insert the occasional pcb sleeper but am concerned the heat from soldering will damage the Easitrac sleeper chairs? Does anyone have any better solutions?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am currently on a very very steep learning curve!

 

Pete

[nick_bastable]

the track book offers a solution to laying 3rd rail although the examples i laid/lay are bullhead running lines with flat bottom 3rd rail as 1960 based

 

I use pcb sleepers with easitrac points  sleepers raising the level with versaline  without obvious melting problems   I even solder my 3rd rail to pins while pinned although clear of easitrac sleepers without melting problems although it did take a little practice 

 

Nick

 

[Friar Tuck]

I have a couple of questions regarding Easitrac

 

My next question is regarding the laying of Easitrac. With copperclad track, plain line can be build over a templot template forming a perfect curve to my specifications. The only way I can think of achieving this with Easitrac without having the paper between the sleepers and underlay/baseboard? My only idea was to insert the occasional pcb sleeper but am concerned the heat from soldering will damage the Easitrac sleeper chairs? Does anyone have any better solutions?

 

Pete

 

I strongly recommend using the Templot templates.

 

Easitrac adhesive has high grab, almost like a contact adhesive. I just apply the Easitrac adhesive to the back of the Easitrac sleepers and lay the track over the templates. The adhesive gives just enough time to gently push the track here and there to get it in line, but otherwise it stays exactly where it is put - no weights or anything else required.

 

I have been putting one or two copper clad sleepers at the ends of each section. This is so I have a bit of adjustment if necessary between one section and another - both vertical and horizontal. They also provide somewhere to attach the wires when wiring the track.

 

I thought that Versaline chairs were for bullhead track, not flat-bottomed? You may find the rail does not fit snugly against these chairs, as the base of F/B rail is wider than bullhead. I plan to use short sections of 0.3mm phosphor bronze strip between the rail and the sleepers on my F/B pointwork, with a minimal amount of solder.

[PeteDavey]

I strongly recommend using the Templot templates.

 

Easitrac adhesive has high grab, almost like a contact adhesive. I just apply the Easitrac adhesive to the back of the Easitrac sleepers and lay the track over the templates..

So the template stays in place and is just ballasted over?

 

Pete

[Friar Tuck]

So the template stays in place and is just ballasted over?

 

Pete

 

Why not?

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you intend to do? I have been sticking the templates for plain track down onto to the baseboard before adding track and assumed you meant the same.

 

I used contact adhesive to stick the templates down. The resulting track is very strong and won't move without a fair amount of force. I had to replace a short section, so found this out the hard way!

 

If you have doubts about doing things this way, please explain why and someone may be able to help.

 

I try to build points this way too, where possible - in situ, on templates already stuck to the baseboard. I find this gives smoother trackwork.

[PeteDavey]

I have read in on here that building track off of the baseboard is easier. I would imagine this would be more relevant in my case as my layout incorporates a helix so was hoping to keep the track as smooth as possible in an area where I am already asking a lot of a loco with a 2% gradient on a 16.5" radius curve. What I am keen to avoid is an inconsistent curve that could potentially cause problems.

 

Would I be correct in assuming that the Pva from track laying/ballasting would saturate the paper and give a firm bond to the baseboard then?

 

Pete

[martin_wynne]

So the template stays in place and is just ballasted over?

 

Hi Pete,

 

If you want to do that, print on thicker paper. 160gsm paper is almost a thin card and much more stable than ordinary 80gsm office paper.

 

Print 2 copies of the templates. Use one on the bench for construction, and the other on the baseboard to aligned the constructed item. They will be identical, so everything will line up fine.

 

Before ballasting over it you can spike holes through the template for a more robust result.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[nick_bastable]

Iain Rices book on 4mm track building suggests building track on paper templates off layout and laying afterwards  worth a read for ideas 

[Friar Tuck]

I have read in on here that building track off of the baseboard is easier. I would imagine this would be more relevant in my case as my layout incorporates a helix so was hoping to keep the track as smooth as possible in an area where I am already asking a lot of a loco with a 2% gradient on a 16.5" radius curve. What I am keen to avoid is an inconsistent curve that could potentially cause problems.

 

Would I be correct in assuming that the Pva from track laying/ballasting would saturate the paper and give a firm bond to the baseboard then?

 

Pete

 

I have no experience of building helixes, so don't feel qualified to comment. Maybe you should experiment first, before taking the plunge with the layout proper.

 

Despite Martin's view to the contrary, I can assure you from practical experience that my methods do work very well. I see no need for thicker paper at all. It helps if you draw the 150mm Templot grid on the baseboard so you have something to align the templates too. Otherwise, things may easily drift - especially on curved track.

 

As I proved when I had to modify my track, the contact adhesive most definitely sticks the templates adequately to the baseboard. The Easitrac glue simply glues the sleepers to the templates, though it will soak into the template to some degree. 2mm stock is not very heavy and the rail section small. There just are not the stresses you might expect from larger scales.

 

I do assemble the sleepers and rail ifor plain Easitrac before I stick the track bases down, by the way. I may not have made that clear in my earlier post. It is only the pointwork that I try to assemble in situ.

[Valentin]

This is the exact way I intend to build my small layout (3.5' x 1').

 

The templates will be stuck to the baseboard using 3M Spray Mount or Woodland Scenics' Scenic Cement™ then the assembled Easitrac sleepers and rails will be glued to the templates using Easitrac glue.

 

Because the layout is so small and there are only two points, I don't see a problem building them in-situ using PCB sleepers and Versaline chair system.

[Friar Tuck]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I inundated a short section of my test track with water and left it for the evening. The water has now more or less dried and the track is still as solid as ever. I had not ballasted it. I had just stuck the templates down with contact adhesive and stuck the Easitrac plain track down to it with Easitrac glue.

 

What really surprised me is that the MDF track base is still in good shape too. This was an unavoidable but incidental part of the experiment.

 

I am now even more convinced than ever that what I am doing is very robust and far exceeds any specification required.

 

As to reading books on track building - I have built track in a number of gauges. I really find the issues in 2mm scale different to all the bigger scales. It is not more difficult, but it does need a different mind set and different techniques.

 

Pete - Regarding gradients, I did try an experimental 1:50 (2%) grade a few years ago with N gauge stock. Even without curves, most locos struggled to pull much up the gradient. Some, like the Dapol Class 73 with the plastic chassis, would hardly pull anything at all. I would strongly advise you to set up a little test track - maybe a straight single track on a plank - and test what locos will actually do. You don't even have to re-gauge the stock, as N gauge stuff will run on plain Easitrac. Better to find out now than after you have built the big layout.

[PeteDavey]

You have me worried now Friar, I shall set up a little experiment tomorrow. I only have a couple of Class 411's at the moment which climbed the 4% gradient I tried but am yet to procure the diesels and the coaches for the layout are not due for release until the summer!

 

Has anyone tried hiding a motor in a coach for a consist in disguise?

[Friar Tuck]

I was exaggerating slightly, to make the point about gradients.

 

DMUs were fine, apart from the original Dapol Voyager. The freight trains I wanted to haul were very long. The Farish 66 and 37 were not bad, but still wouldn't haul the length of train I really wanted. Maybe I was just being greedy. The class 73 with the plastic chassis was particularly poor at hauling trains, but I think the earlier 73s with the metal chassis and later Dapol products are better.

 

I will have a similar gradient on my new layout, but don't plan to run long freight trains up it.

 

It is well worth doing the experiment though, to prove for yourself what can or can't be done.

[PeteDavey]

Ultimately, the biggest ask will be an 8 coached Diesel hauled train, so it may be worth asking the question which models offer the best hauling power from the 80's era. The other trains running will be either the 4 car class 411's or 2 Class 411's running as a consist as was frequently seen on the Victoria to Dover line, the later I'm hoping will prove trouble free!

 

Pete

[Friar Tuck]

I was aiming for 32 HAAs or a very long container train.. I don't think an 8 coach passenger train is quite the same challenge. Provided you make sure the axles are free running, I would have thought that 8 coaches to be fine for something like a 47 - but still worth testing just in case.

[Donw]

Don't use a  straight gradient as a guide to loads up a helix. The curvature will add extra drag depending on the radius especially on long trains.

 

If you build turnouts on templates you could fix them on the layout and then let the curves take a natural shape between them. For say the helix I would just cut a suitable template (plasticard or ply) then lay the easitrac using the template it would save a lot of effort fixing the templates down. I find it easier to slide the sections onto one rails while the sprue is still attached then cut the sprues and start bending. for tight radius you may find it easier to cut the webbing.

 

Don

[PeteDavey]

Thanks Don, I was considering making my own "tracksetta" style templates as I will only have two constant radius' on the helix with easement top and bottom. I am aware of the additional drag a helix will cause on a long train which is why I have carried out my tests on a 4% gradient when the helix will only be 2%. My theory is by doubling the gradient for the test it should make up for any additional resistance the curve will impose on the train. Tests so far are looking positive

 

Pete

[bécasse]

Thanks Don, I was considering making my own "tracksetta" style templates as I will only have two constant radius' on the helix with easement top and bottom. I am aware of the additional drag a helix will cause on a long train which is why I have carried out my tests on a 4% gradient when the helix will only be 2%. My theory is by doubling the gradient for the test it should make up for any additional resistance the curve will impose on the train. Tests so far are looking positive.

 

My own experience (actually with fine scale ng models which behave in a very similar way to 2FS) suggests that your empirical doubling of the steepness of the test gradient is about right.

 

I would also check the "rollability" of each individual vehicle in the longest/heaviest train by finding the gradient on which it will just start to roll of its own accord. It is surprising how often this varies considerably for apparently identical vehicles and the test quickly shows which vehicles will benefit from a little attention - I have found that a little 'lock graphite' powder from a puffer bottle can work wonders.

 

I would also suggest that you give serious consideration to super elevating the track on the helix as this should reduce the rolling resistance of the stock without impairing the adhesion of the motive power.

[PeteDavey]

I would also suggest that you give serious consideration to super elevating the track on the helix as this should reduce the rolling resistance of the stock without impairing the adhesion of the motive power.

 

What degree of super elevation would you suggest?

 

Pete

[bécasse]

What degree of super elevation would you suggest?

 

Since ease of installation is probably more important than precisely optimising the angle of superelevation (which would depend on the radius of curvature and typical train speeds), I would suggest cutting strips about 1mm wide from 20 thou plastikard and placing them under the outside ends of the sleepers. They should be flexible enough to follow the curves of the helix and using Mekpak to "stick" them to the baseboard should be sufficient to keep them in place. A thick liquid pva-type adhesive used to fix the sleepers to the baseboard should have no problem in coping with the resultant 0 to 0.5mm gap under the length of each sleeper.

[Donw]

Alternatively the elevation can be built in to the helix sub base might be more complicated at first but quicker when laying track.

Don

[PeteDavey]

Alternatively the elevation can be built in to the helix sub base might be more complicated at first but quicker when laying track.

Don

I was just thinking exactly that, you must have read my mind! The helix will be build using M6 studding so should be easy enough to set up, and I can play with the degree of elevation until the right results are achieved!

 

Pete

[bécasse]

I was just thinking exactly that, you must have read my mind! The helix will be build using M6 studding so should be easy enough to set up, and I can play with the degree of elevation until the right results are achieved!

 

You will need nuts above and below each sub base, but I am sure that you had that in mind anyway.

 

You will find that you need more fiddling to get it right if you introduce super-elevation this way but don't let me put you off. What I would suggest is that you mark each nut, top and bottom as well as the outside face of one hex-segment, so that you can clearly see how much you have moved it when doing fine adjustment. I have found that using an indelible felt-tip marker was much better than paint, simpler to apply, doesn't get rubbed off so easily by a spanner, and, if it does, easier to touch up.

[autocoupler942]

By pure coincidence there appeared this morning on Ebay an american  manufacturer of helix systems. Name of Proses - item 291100278546 is just one example of their range. It's worth a look for construction ideas but it is obviously expensive - unless you factor the cost of your time, materials and ability. Going for this means you could get on with the building of the rest of the layout far quicker. 

[PeteDavey]

By pure coincidence there appeared this morning on Ebay an american  manufacturer of helix systems. Name of Proses - item 291100278546 is just one example of their range. It's worth a look for construction ideas but it is obviously expensive - unless you factor the cost of your time, materials and ability. Going for this means you could get on with the building of the rest of the layout far quicker.

 

Sadly the helix I have in mind needs to be within fairly specific dimensions so they can be an integral part of the baseboard. The baseboards will be a two level plywood sandwich construction in 3 separate modules and an integral back scene so the helix should prove little extra work after that lot!

 

Pete