BR (WR) WTT Sec. 7 Swindon-Swansea 1971-1972. Help please

[br2975]

Does anyone have access to, or a copy of the BR (WR) Working Timetable, Section 7, Swindon – Swansea for  3^rd May 1971 to 30^th April, 1972 ?

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Some of these Newport based workings became the preserve of pairs of Class 25s after the arrival of further members of the class at Ebbw Junction depot during the first week of 1972.

 

  I’m looking for help with completing the information I already have (obtained from Section 9 of the BR (WR) WTT covering the Cardiff Division for the same time period) in relation to the following  workings

 

7A73 Trethomas – Nantgarw

0A73 Nantgarw – Radyr

9A73 Radyr – Rogerstone.

Any further information on this diagram would be welcome.

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0A79 Q Marshalling Sidings – Radyr Quarry

9A79 Q Radyr – Newport Dock St.

Any information on how the diagram got to Marshalling Sidings (Cardiff Docks) and any other workings would be welcome.

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8A90 East Usk – AVCW

0A91 AVCW – Abercwmboi

8A90 Abercwmboi – Severn Tunnel Jct.

Any further information on this diagram would be welcome.

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8A91 East Usk – Radyr

9A91 Radyr – Penarth Curve North

0A91 Penarth Curve North – Radyr (EBV)

9A91 Radyr Quarry – Marshalling Sidings

          Marshalling Sidings – East Usk

8A91 SX East Usk – Ogilvie Colliery

8A91 SX Ogilvie Colliery – Radyr

Any further information, such as how the  return  Marshalling Sidings - East Usk and Radyr – East Usk leg would be welcome

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8A99 MX East Usk – Radyr

How did this working and/or

8A99 MX East Usk – Stormstown.

get back to the Newport area.

In addition, the East Usk - Stormstown working seems to disappear from my WTT somewhere around Penarth Curve !!!!!

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Does anyone have any sightings of these workings, or can point me toward any photos ?

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Photos of  Newport area trips seem to be restricted to anything passing through Newport (High St) station - and in later years were invariably of a large beast called 'Falcon'.

 

I appreciate this is a long shot - but any help would be appreciated.

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Thanks in advance

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Brian R

[The Stationmaster]

Brian,

 

Sorry but alas I can't help.  I've got some bits of sSummer 1973 engine working off the board my colleague established at Radyr for our local control purposes but my view of the whole day is either 'shaky' or very poorly focused - if you have access to some sharpening software you're welcome to have a go at a copy.  I don't think I've got any WTTs from that period but a hunt of teh attic shelves might reveal something, definitely no loco diagrams.

[br2975]

Thanks anyway Mike - I missed one on a related website back last year and I've been unbearable since (try explaining to the wife you're grumpy because you missed a working timetable !)

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Brian R

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Brian,

 

I've got Sec. 10 May 69 - May 70, Sec. 7 May 70 - May 71, Sec. 8 May 71 - Apr 72 & Sec. D Oct 73 - May 74.

 

Sulzer Diesel Locomotives of British Rail by Brian Webb gives a good account of pairs of 25s on the Ebbw Vale route in 1972.

 

Send me your e-mail address in a PM and I'll send a couple of useful picture scans to you.

 

Dave

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Brian,

 

The coal from Ogilvie colliery appears to have travelled via Aber, Taffs Well, Radyr and Cardiff Central to Long Dyke jnc where it appears to have run round to access Cardiff Docks.

 

The Trethomas - Nantgarw workings are shown under the same headcodes in my 1970/71 Sec. 7 they worked down to Ebbw jnc before running along the main line to Cardiff and taking the same freight route to Radyr.

 

I would recommend Traction magazine November 2005 for a 1974 article on freight at Aberbeeg. Tee Publishing of Leamington Spa should be able to fix you up with a copy.

 

'Welsh Railways' by Denis Dunstone has some excellent views, mainly steam in colour, around the secondary lines in Wales.

 

'Diesels in South Wales' by Michael Rhodes has a useful range of views throughout.

 

I have many 1971/72 images of South Wales freight scattered throughout many articles/books etc...you'll need to be specific if you want particular traffic types. 

 

Dave

[br2975]

Brian,

 

The coal from Ogilvie colliery appears to have travelled via Aber, Taffs Well, Radyr and Cardiff Central to Long Dyke jnc where it appears to have run round to access Cardiff Docks.

 

The Trethomas - Nantgarw workings are shown under the same headcodes in my 1970/71 Sec. 7 they worked down to Ebbw jnc before running along the main line to Cardiff and taking the same freight route to Radyr.

 

I would recommend Traction magazine November 2005 for a 1974 article on freight at Aberbeeg. Tee Publishing of Leamington Spa should be able to fix you up with a copy.

 

'Welsh Railways' by Denis Dunstone has some excellent views, mainly steam in colour, around the secondary lines in Wales.

 

'Diesels in South Wales' by Michael Rhodes has a useful range of views throughout.

 

 

Thanks Dave

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I've got both books, and the 'Traction' magazine.

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As for the running around at Long Dyke, I never considered that - I assumed (never assume etc etc) that the run round would be at Pengam. 

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The Trethomas - Nantgarw was almost certainly coke hoppers (originating at Bedwas ?)  but I'm not so sure about the return to Rogerstone.

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In light of the initial 'weak field' problems, I'd like to have seen a pair of 25s being thrashed  coaxed up the 'Big Hill' from Walnut Tree to Aber Jct. - I'll have to check the loads book to see what they were allowed compared to a 'six eighter'

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Thanks again,

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Brian R

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Brian,

 

I have a feeling that Rogerstone was a quarry.

 

Dave

[br2975]

Brian,

 

I have a feeling that Rogerstone was a quarry.

 

Dave

 

Dave

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I overlooked Rogerstone Power Station - the most likely destination for coal (?) from Radyr.

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Some pics of Rogerstone towards the end of its existence here:-

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?location=Rogerstone&serial=1&img=Y-26-10

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?location=Rogerstone&serial=2&img=Y-26-11

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?location=Rogerstone&img=Y-26-09

 

A great site, with loads of shots in South Wales during the late60s and early 70s.

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Brian

[The Stationmaster]

I can't recall anything moving coal wise from Radyr to Rogerstone power station during 1973 and I don't think there was anything off the Cardiff Valleys going in there in early '74 (during the non NUM strike period - although I did go in there, and nearly took part of a NUM 'picket line' with me on the front of the BR Mini).  I can't think what the flow would have been from Trethomas to Nantgarw but it might even have been coal although in '73, again, I can't recall any coal for Nantgarw coming off the Newport Valleys - it was all either Cardiff Valleys or up from Margam.

 

By '73 I don't think there were any booked run-rounds for the docks at Pengam because it was basically all given over to liner traffic but the signalling was still there and trains probably did run round there on occasion.

[leekman]

Brian,

 

I am at work at the moment and will have a look over the next few days as I might have a copy of Section 7 for 71/2 as I was fairly keen in getting the Cardiff WTTs back then,.

 

Phil

[br2975]

Brian,

 

I am at work at the moment and will have a look over the next few days as I might have a copy of Section 7 for 71/2 as I was fairly keen in getting the Cardiff WTTs back then,.

 

Phil

 

 

Thanks Phil.

.

Brian R

[leekman]

Brian,

 

I do have a Section 7 for 71/72 and a quick look at it shows only the main line timing points,stations, junctions etc, the branches to Bedwas/Ebbw Vale etc are not detailed at all. Another interesting feature or lack of is no Class 9 workings are shown, you would need the Newport District Class 9 freight timetable (I have not seen one but have seen a similar for the Cardiff district on ebay some time ago).

I have picked out one or two things from some of the questions to start off, 8A90 1742 Abercwmboi - Severn Tunnel Junction2105 is shown in Sec 9 as Q to terminate Radyr 1940, the train in Sec 7 is shown as Q .

7A73 1400 Trethomas - Nantgarw 1602 class 7 indicates a fitted head of sorts so possibly coke hoppers, or could it be coal for blending or an empty wagon flow then 0A73 1625 Nantgarw - Radyr then works 9A73 1745 Radyr - Rogerstone. If not the power station did the aluminium plant receive coal by rail?

I will look some more tomorrow and see what else I can find.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Brian,

 

I do have a Section 7 for 71/72 and a quick look at it shows only the main line timing points,stations, junctions etc, the branches to Bedwas/Ebbw Vale etc are not detailed at all. Another interesting feature or lack of is no Class 9 workings are shown, you would need the Newport District Class 9 freight timetable (I have not seen one but have seen a similar for the Cardiff district on ebay some time ago).

I have picked out one or two things from some of the questions to start off, 8A90 1742 Abercwmboi - Severn Tunnel Junction2105 is shown in Sec 9 as Q to terminate Radyr 1940, the train in Sec 7 is shown as Q .

7A73 1400 Trethomas - Nantgarw 1602 class 7 indicates a fitted head of sorts so possibly coke hoppers, or could it be coal for blending or an empty wagon flow then 0A73 1625 Nantgarw - Radyr then works 9A73 1745 Radyr - Rogerstone. If not the power station did the aluminium plant receive coal by rail?

I will look some more tomorrow and see what else I can find.

If the Timing Loads are shown in the column head (I'm not sure if they were then?) you do have a guide as to what the train was conveying - albeit in very broad terms.

[br2975]

Brian,

 

I do have a Section 7 for 71/72 and a quick look at it shows only the main line timing points,stations, junctions etc, the branches to Bedwas/Ebbw Vale etc are not detailed at all. Another interesting feature or lack of is no Class 9 workings are shown, you would need the Newport District Class 9 freight timetable (I have not seen one but have seen a similar for the Cardiff district on ebay some time ago).

I have picked out one or two things from some of the questions to start off, 8A90 1742 Abercwmboi - Severn Tunnel Junction2105 is shown in Sec 9 as Q to terminate Radyr 1940, the train in Sec 7 is shown as Q .

7A73 1400 Trethomas - Nantgarw 1602 class 7 indicates a fitted head of sorts so possibly coke hoppers, or could it be coal for blending or an empty wagon flow then 0A73 1625 Nantgarw - Radyr then works 9A73 1745 Radyr - Rogerstone. If not the power station did the aluminium plant receive coal by rail?

I will look some more tomorrow and see what else I can find.

 

Thank you Phil.

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It makes me wonder (dangerous I know) but  possibly the coke hoppers, requiring a 'fitted head'  may have been provided with  'Tadpoles' aka redundant  Banana vans, a number of which were used across South Wales as a fitted head, including off Llantrisant ' a 'hot bed' for coke hoppers (Cwm and Coed Ely were both served from Llantrisant - starting point of the well known 'Pensnett' coke hopper service)

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I don't think Alcan (or whatever they were then)  received coal by rail, but I could be wrong.

 

Any information, however minute or improbable will be gratefully received.

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Thanks again

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Brian R

[leekman]

Brian,

 

I have had a look tonight and there is very little info in the WTT to add to your services listed,I suspect the local freight timetables might be of more use. I only started late 71 in spotting so memory is a bit vague but I can remember brake tenders knocking about at Radyr, would thye have been used on the Nantgarw working or would they have been used on longer distance services. I dont know if you have the article but Modern Railways did an article on coal in the Cardiff Division in the January 79 or 80 edition which gave a good insight into the flows and workings. I think (sticking my neck out) that Q paths were more locally managed as the traffic needs could be matched to actual colliery/coking ovens outputs. Going back to  the 8A90 Abercwmboi - STJ working it terminated at the Hump Reception sidings, so would it be broken down there into various destinations and similarly returning empties could find their way back to Abercwmboi if not directly then via Radyr. Was Rogerstone used for any marshalling then and did the Monmouthshire Bank/Alexandra Dock Junction area feed into East Usk? 

 

I will have a look to see if I have anything else which may help but I donot have any of the local freight timetables.

 

Mike, the columns have the timing column - mainly H3 which seems to point to loaded trains (H4 had the longest point to point times)

 

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

As far as I know Blockplan was in operation by 1972 and I think had in fact been running for more than a year by then.  Under that system East Usk was a distribution yard for empties - in fact it was the main distribution yard for flat bottom (coal) wagons in the eastern end of South Wales and handled little else apart from oddments of local traffic, Rogerstone had, I think, closed by then as a marshalling yard but still handled a few originating and terminating trains for/from local locations from a few remaining sidings.

 

Effectively all trains ran as required although certain paths and engine/crew workings ran everyday albeit with a change of destination to suit traffic requirements and the daily colliery plans including orders for empties.By '73 Radyr had two Manned Conditional trains on each shift one being regarded as the 'long' working (which often meant an English destination) and the other being regarded as 'short' (which effectively meant no further than STJ or Margam) although it sometimes ran further especially on the early turn.

 

And yes H4 would be the heaviest Timing Load and H1 the lightest.

[br2975]

Does anyone have access to, or a copy of the BR (WR) Working Timetable, Section 7, Swindon – Swansea for  3^rd May 1971 to 30^th April, 1972 ?

.

 

7A73 Trethomas – Nantgarw

0A73 Nantgarw – Radyr

9A73 Radyr – Rogerstone.

 

 

Well, not a pair of Cl.25s - but a photo of 9A73 and loaded coke hoppers during the period in question.

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/lombardstown/12543331964/in/set-72157641100024615

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Brian R

[philwaglab]

I know that a pair of class 25's used to come to Roseheyworth during 1974 to pick up coal traffic for Hawarden Bridge.This was possably worked to AD Junction.