Heljan 27 Lights Mystery?

[Dunmar]

Hi,

I have a Heljan CL27 fitted with a Zimo ' multi - drive decoder but the headcode will only light up in the one direction along with the rear lights. When changing direction the opposite headcode will not light up and the rear lights will not work. All wiring and plug -in connections have been checked. Have also removed plugs and when current is passed through them from a DC controller the bulbs light up. Any thoughts  !

Bill.

[WardRail]

First thought would be to identify if the problem is with the loco or the decoder, try the loco with a "known good" decoder from another loco, matters not if its a different brand to the Zimo... If the problem persists with the known good decoder, I'd say its the loco, if the problem is gone with the known good decoder, then the Zimo decoder you first fitted may have a problem.

 

Will admit I'm not familiar with Zimo decoders and somebody more familiar with them might be able to point out a trick or two with Zimo's

 

Only other thought is the Heljan tail lamps - are both the plastic light tunnels (they look like pink 7's), still in position at the non-working end ? They tend to fall out given any opportunity on my Heljan 26's. Not sure if the 27's use the same method of lighting on the tail lights as the 26's - if they don't, ignore the question !

 

Best

Matthew

[StaffsOatcake]

I have a two tone green 27 that has pin 1 incorrectly identified. had similar symptoms to what you described/.  I would try a non sound chip in the loco and see if you still get the issues.   I ended up rotating the chip 180 degrees to get it to work properly

[Dunmar]

Bingo  ! Now why didn't I think of that ? After fitting a Lenz decoder all lights working perfectly. Next question how do I access the Zimo decoder and check the CV's - they aren't the friendliest of CV's to access. Anyone got any ideas ?

 

Bill.

[Dunmar]

Hi,

Have re-set the Zimo decoder back to default - and wallah! lights all working. I suspect changing the address to 4 digit is causing the fault. I have altered 4 different CV's to enhance running and will look at each one in turn to find which it is that's causing the fault. I have had this in the past with a LokSound V4. Thanks for the assistance.

Bill.

[pauliebanger]

Hi Bill,

 

Just got home from birthday present shopping, sorry I wasn't around to answer you earlier. 

 

I don't know of any CVs you could change to 'enhance running' which would affect the lighting controls. Which 4 did you alter?

 

Which DCC controller do you use?

 

Exactly how did you set the 4 digit address? This involves changes in CV29 which can also have an effect on direction dependant functions in some circumstances, though I think unlikely in this case.

 

I'm intrigued by your comment about ZIMO CVs not being friendly. That's not my exprience, what problems are you experiencing?

 

CVs are straightforward with ZIMO, type in the CV number and assign the value, that's it. Unlike some other types which are indexed and need some CVs changed just to gain access the one's you actually need.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[WardRail]

I'd say he's probably changed CV's 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 to get it running the way he wants it, that's the first CV's most people change and I doubt any changes to them would affect the lighting at all... Also have doubts whether changing the address would have any effect on the lighting. Perhaps the decoder had a funny setting (its not unknown, I've seen it in brand new TCS decoders), which was cleared by the decoder reset he did. In any case the problem seems to have gone - hopefully permanantly. I always try a known good decoder in a new or problem loco before doing a decoder reset, if the loco is at fault, no amount of decoder resetting will fix it.

 

Best

Matthew

[Andrew F]

  I remember strange things happening with lighting after changing CV29 to allow extended addresses . Maybe deactivating the DC running bit cured it.

[WardRail]

Could well be, I'm not familiar with Zimo decoders, so am unaware wether they come with the run on dc bit is enabled by default or not.

 

Best

Matthew

[Nigelcliffe]

  I remember strange things happening with lighting after changing CV29 to allow extended addresses . Maybe deactivating the DC running bit cured it.

 

And what value did you set in CV29 ?    Having a mis-match between speed steps in CV29 and the corresponding setting in the DCC controller can lead to lighting problems. 

[pauliebanger]

Chaps,

 

If you change CVs 3, 4, 5 or 6 on any sound decoder you risk changing the way the sound project operates (sound played compared with motion/road speed). These CVs will not affect lighting functions.

 

CV29 contains a 'directional Bit' which can affect lighting, but as I said earlier, probably not in this case.

 

CV29 also contains the instruction to allow 4 digit addresses, changing these without regard to other Bits which might be set could have an effect.

 

See my feature on CVs in the current Hornby Magazine, issue 82; CV29 often causes problems if changes are not made correctly.

 

This speculation is all well and good and often the answers can be found by checking out a variety of suggestions, but I compiled the sound project that Bill has on his ZIMO decoder so I have a particular interest in checking out all potential problems so that I can ensure that any required corrections are made as soon as possible. Quick and accurate feedback will help this process.

 

Bill,

 

I don't know of any problems with this popular project, but if you can tell me what you have done, I can replicate your changes to see if and how they affect the way the project works.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Dunmar]

Hi Paul,

After fitting the decoder I appeared to have a distinct stutter when moving off at slow speeds and when slowing down. I altered CV2 = 7, as it was taking too long to move off ! CV9 = 99,

CV56 = 65 and it improved running. Whether these were the right CV's to alter I'm not sure, I did read the manual at length - not the easiest thing to do - and that's what I meant by ' unfriendly '.

It wasn't until later I noticed the lights weren't working properly. However, having attempted to change the address 3 times on the programme track - it wasn't until the final attempt that they worked.

I have had on a Loksound decoder changed the address to a four digit which resulted in some strange behaviour and was advised to use another handset to alter the CV and it worked. I'm not saying thats what happened here, but I convinced it was merely a ' Blip '.

I have several Zimo decoders - all of which do ' excactly what it says on the tin '.

Bill.

[pauliebanger]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks. It seems more likely that incomplete or corrupted programming may well be the cause of the problem. That's good, saves me a job!

 

I am a bit surprised that you need as much as 7 in CV2, but it's not an outlandish figure and if your loco stats without a jolt that's fine.

 

CV9 and CV56 are good choices for customising the decoder to the motor's characteristics. You could try CV58 also, try values around 120-150. You may find that this will allow you to set the others mentioned more towards their default values.

 

You can, indeed I would recommend that you do, make these changes using 'POM' programming on the main. This method avoids the restricted current normally used in Service Mode programming (programme track) and can be more reliable because of this. It also means that you can test any changes immediately, great for incremental value changes under observation.

 

So, all's well that end's well.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Paul

[Dunmar]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the extra info - hope I didn't startle you too much - I'm still having fun with the 'Multi - drive ' and peeps are forever asking me which decoder I am using and where are the speakers !

Regards, Bill.

[WardRail]

Hi again

 

Paul, I don't use sound, so was unaware re changing the low numbered CV's could lead to lighting problems (CV's 3,4,5 and 6)

 

Sorry re any confusion thus caused, no offence intended whatsoever

 

Bill, glad its sorted !

 

Best

Matthew

[pauliebanger]

Matthew,

 

No offence taken, but that's not what I said exactly.

 

As you rightly point out, without sound to take into account, one is free to change momemtum and speed restriction CVs to suit the movement required.

 

However, sound decoders often rely on specific CV values to allow the sound and motion to work together to crate the illusion that the model is diesel powered (or steam). Changing them to suit a particular preference may upset this balance which has been set up by the project author during compilation.

 

The 'Momentum' button on NCE Powercab is particularly troublesome in this respect, because not all users realise that this feature actually changes the settings in CV3 and CV4. This means that CV value which may be crucial to the correct operation of a sound decoder can be semi-permanently changed without the user's conscious knowledge. This can give rise to unexpected problems which, seeing no other reason, the user may put down to a poor sound project or a faulty decoder.

 

My advice with NCE equipment is, therefore, to avoid using the momentum button with sound decoders. What makes all this more difficult is that the multiplyer used in this should be to a standard NMRA value, but ESU loksound (alone) uses a different value, so the effect of the NCEmomentum button is vastly different to the effect on all other sound decoders. Try running in a consist after that.

 

However, none of the aboove will affect the way in which the directional lighting or other functions work, and I'm sorry if what I said left you with that impression.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul