Harald Brosch Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ok here's a comparison of RMweb suggestion compared to FremoOO RMweb in Blue FremoOO in black, all you would need to do is drill the holes to the spec. rmweb comparison to fremo.JPG Moin Paul the FREMO part of the pic shows an 490mm endplate I´m cutting normally only for my modue-kits, cause the endplates are fitted between the long-sides of the modules. Normally endplates are 500mm long. But that doesn´t any matter - Your comparison is fine. Thanks Harald Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Less than 5p each from Screwfix, a lot cheaper than the 'T' nuts if you want to make a dozen modules. Longer ones available too. They call them "M6 Insert nuts type 'D'." and appear to have a hexagonal drive which might make them easier to screw into the end of a bit of DIY store 2" x 2" knotty pine. These nuts on the right side above (Einschlagmuttern) don´t last long till they get loose. better - more durable - are Rampamuffen / rampa sleeves Can't find the M6 feet in Screwfix though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2014 But that doesn´t any matter - Your comparison is fine. Thanks Harald Harald, thanks I was going by the module codes listed in the Fremo OO site and didn't realise. What it does prove though is that anyone can use a Fremo end plate and still link it up easily to the RMweb style, there's even a plain rectangle that's only 4mm taller and 50mm wider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald Brosch Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Harald, thanks I was going by the module codes listed in the Fremo OO site and didn't realise. What it does prove though is that anyone can use a Fremo end plate and still link it up easily to the RMweb style, there's even a plain rectangle that's only 4mm taller and 50mm wider. Paul, I totally agree The highness of the endplates doesn´t any matter either. FREMOists are using 100 - 104 - 115 - 195 mm and so on - and everything works together - only of importance is the high above the ground of the top of the rail - and thanks to adaptable legs .... Tschuess / bye Harald Sorry again for misspellings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 1300 mm is fairly universal in Europe. This height is adopted by N gauge groups, H0 gauge, 00 gauge (as far as 00Fremo is concerned), H0m and H0e gauge (of which the latter is in my opinion a great starting point for 009 modules), 0 gauge and gauge 1 groups. It is an unwritten law on this side of the channel tunnel. Whilst you are technical correct about having more 00 gauge modules in Britain than anywhere else in future, you make few the same than none. If progressing with your 45" height you are forcing future 009 using the same height as well as those with an interest in European railways and modular groups to have different legs for British and non-British modules. There would be a synergy effect if everything is the same height. Sadly Felix, the British have already made a duff decision, and you won't make them reconsider, only entrench the position even though no wood has been cut. Its OO vs HO all over again.... I guess in retrospect the best way would have been to tell everyone that the only height FORBIDDEN in FREMO was 1300mm, then that would have been chosen... Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I wonder if, when every other modular standard around the world has been discussed, a pre-existing group has complained "why don't they just adopt our standards" every time...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sadly Felix, the British have already made a duff decision, and you won't make them reconsider, only entrench the position even though no wood has been cut. Its OO vs HO all over again.... I guess in retrospect the best way would have been to tell everyone that the only height FORBIDDEN in FREMO was 1300mm, then that would have been chosen... Jon I wasn't sure if Jon's post was meant to be funny, ironic or insulting. After consideration, I'm leaning toward the latter. Mind you, I'm sure I'm wrong... I'm British. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 These nuts on the right side above (Einschlagmuttern) don´t last long till they get loose. better - more durable - are Rampamuffen / rampa sleeves Less than 5p each from Screwfix, a lot cheaper than the 'T' nuts if you want to make a dozen modules. Longer ones available too. They call them "M6 Insert nuts type 'D'." and appear to have a hexagonal drive which might make them easier to screw into the end of a bit of DIY store 2" x 2" knotty pine. Can't find the M6 feet in Screwfix though. I will try them next time/when my T-Nuts fall out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I had a 'moment' early when I suddenly realised the possible brilliance of this for the individual with grand plans. So I thought I'd share as it might help others. I've had plans in my head to build a layout based on Norwich Thorpe and Crown Point for a while now. In planning it's been easy to break the layout down into sections, but trying to build it all at once would be expensive and take a long time before anything gets running. Using the sections created during planning, it would be easier to build it as a selection of small 'RMWebOO' modular layouts that over time would make the entire station but could also be used as modules in different environments at meets....if you get what I mean. So the junction under Carrow Road would be a simple 4 way mainline module. The old TMD and workshops alongside the lines into the goods yard would be another module but at a meet would be just a TMD shed along side a mainline. Mainline Into 6 platform terminating station for an end module. The proper station approach could be a mainline through module with a single track branch and stabling sidings. Plus there would be multiple simple terminating shunting modules. Then there's the Crown Point modules...... For a large home layout it seems a much more managable way of creating it in pieces and gives the options of parts getting used without it all being finished. I'm sure there's others out there with large intimidating grand plans that may find that method of creation useful. (Some of my plans may involve OHLE, but lets not open that can of worms again ) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sadly Felix, the British have already made a duff decision, Jon there have only been a couple of Fremo demos over here at the Warley show, a few of the US Freemo and a host of individual club modular layouts from Eastwell Ironstone to Tarrant Valley NG at shows. None of those have taken off on a wider scale yet so isn't this proposing this compatible RMweb standard taking the best of US and Europe rather than ignoring it?I can't see many of us regularly popping over the channel with a layout as it costs a lot and vice versa for the German chaps. Simply using a Fremo end plate and an extra £10 making extendable legs your section could do both and convince others who see it and are tempted to follow your lead The RMweb standard is simpler, based on the Freemo one as Andy believes it is less daunting to start it up, but happily it's also easily compatible with Fremo. We haven't chosen anything drastically different to be awkward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just a thought... Perhaps once things have settled down and we have an area of the Forum someone could make a map like the South East Coast area group have here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85692-secag-members-locations-on-google-map/?p=1447104 Which would identify where people are in relation to setting a meeting of the boards up, this could also show what type of boards are available to those planning the layouts and also maybe also promote regional get togethers. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Nes, that map you refer to was created by our member Shadow, it's a Google maps overlay. Simple* yet very effective * I say simple, yet I have absolutely no idea how to do it... Edited July 23, 2014 by cromptonnut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ok here's a comparison of RMweb suggestion compared to FremoOO RMweb in Blue FremoOO in black, all you would need to do is drill the holes to the spec. rmweb comparison to fremo.JPG As Harald already has said, the recommended width of modules is 500 mm in FREMO. Ah but Britain is not in the Federal State of Europe not all. Firstly 45" is not my selected height (it is Andy's proposal - for the access reasons mentioned) I have clearly stated that I am indifferent to height (within reason) I vote for adjustable over a range that can include whatever is decided on. The British OO9 modular group can do what they want. This is British OO (not HO, not N, not O) the latter are totally spurious to the discussion unless you are suggesting O gauge stock should be run on OO gauge. So you are not going to encourage Std gauge / narrow gauge transhipment stations? Halesworth Station von The Ephemera Album auf Flickr Halesworth in Suffolk, narrow gauge to the right, standard gauge to the left. Kind regards Felix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 In theory there's no reason someone couldn't make a couple of standalone modules featuring a OO9 layout with a standard gauge line and a couple of sidings on a "standard" module... could be quite interesting in many ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) As Harald already has said, the recommended width of modules is 500 mm in FREMO. Yep and now edited So you are not going to encourage Std gauge / narrow gauge transhipment stations? It's dead easy to incorporate any feature you like within a module, My US switching layout is incompatible as it stands so I built a module to make it fit. See the red box area that joins the two types. Edited July 23, 2014 by PaulRhB 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Crazy idea ref OO9 narrow gauge additions to RMWebOO, and probably jumping far to far ahead of ourselves, but how about RMWebOO9 spec being exactly the same apart from track gauge as the single track RMWebOO spec?! I need to do something with my mixed gauge crossings and Peco crazy track! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That seems eminently sensible to me. Even if you end up being the only one to do it, it doesn't matter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) So you are not going to encourage Std gauge / narrow gauge transhipment stations? FelixM encourage no but I have no problem if someone wishes to do so. At this stage when we haven't even defined British OO standards and desirables - I do think adding in complications for NG at board joins is far too ambitious. Anyway who is to say what the NG inter board gauge should be? OO/14?(Have always thought the term OO9 rather silly as it says nothing about scale and implies two different gauges .. 4=9 would make more sense. 4mm:foot scale on 9mm gauge) Within a module anyone can do anything they want and yes that includes making their own dual gauge track if they want as long as one gauge is OO and the NG part does not trip up a passing train. It would add considerable interest no doubt but is well beyond the ability of most modellers - as many novices will still struggle with Peco. Edited July 23, 2014 by Kenton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Crazy idea ref OO9 narrow gauge additions to RMWebOO, and probably jumping far to far ahead of ourselves, but how about RMWebOO9 spec being exactly the same apart from track gauge as the single track RMWebOO spec?! I need to do something with my mixed gauge crossings and Peco crazy track! What I wanted to point out is that every incompatibility to existing systems that are progressed with bring further incompatibilities over time, 009 being a good example. You are not only going to isolate UK 00 and FREMO 00 and H0 modellers but UK 009 and FREMO H0e modellers. And who knows what comes next. Felix Edited July 23, 2014 by FelixM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 My question would be to ask where are all these UK based OO module modellers? I don't see many other than locally organised groups, we don't see much of them on here anyway but through Stubby and The Stationmaster etc at Taunton we've seen it can give a lot of enjoyment and creativity. Due to the nature of RMweb we stand a chance of kick-starting involvement within the community and associated persons but that won't happen if it's an overly technical 'standard' before we've created anything. The way things are in the UK I wouldn't see busy cross-channel traffic for participation from either side so we need something that can be broadly accepted first of all. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Felix, if you wanted to make a case for UK modellers to adopt your "FREMO" standard perhaps you should ask someone to spend some time finishing off translating the website into English so those of us trying to understand can at least do so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You are not only going to isolate UK 00 and FREMO 00 and H0 modellers but UK 009 and FREMO H0e modellers. And who knows what comes next. Once again we are messing up people's minds by comparing apples with lumps of coal. OO9 and HOe are different - gauge same scale different - so running HOe on HO modules the buildings and little folk work in harmony (the same is true for OO and OO9) but they clash in Lilliput land. I think we need to keep cross-gauge discussions for a different time and place and to concentrate on British OO modules. Just like OHE, it is not being exclusive it is just not high up there on the commonality stakes. So I'm sure someone could make it work but not the vast majority of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2014 While we face a slight matter of track gauge (which we have to accept because it's here) for a British 00 module in other matters we need to remember that will the track gauge is the same as H0 lots of other things will be different - as Andy's dimensional drawing showed. It seems to me rather of the ball to accept for a British 00 module exactly the same standards as those for an H0 module although clearly there might be benefits if the track centres and heights matched. However as other British loading gauge dimensions might not accept H0 stock the benefits might not be as real as might be thought. As Kenton has said, albeit in a rather different context we need, I think, at this time to concentrate on British 00 modules (using, where they exist, British standards if we wish to achieve a British outline railway). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2014 that includes making their own dual gauge track if they want as long as one gauge is OO and the NG part does not trip up a passing train. It would add considerable interest no doubt but is well beyond the ability of most modellers - as many novices will still struggle with Peco.Well they can always use the Tillig dual gauge range as they have mixed OO and 009 or 12mm. So you can model the WHR / BR flat crossing at Porthmadog too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 you should ask someone to spend some time finishing off translating the website into English so those of us trying to understand can at least do so? Google will do that for you, then you can ask about the bits that come out scrambled. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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