John Tomlinson Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 A shameless plug here - I have just uploaded some scans from this event 30 years ago, which may be of interest to anyone modelling the older electrics. These are at www.flickr.com/photos/51265696@N03. The open weekend at the depot here was to commemorate the withdrawal of classes E18 & E44 from DB - Deutsche Bundesbahn of West Germany in those days. My albums on Flickr do contain some other German and European material, and are added to from time to time as I am in the mood to do some scans! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cklammer Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Terrific images - thank you very, very much! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The 118s in particular present quite a corporate image, with nine locos arranged in number sequence all in dark blue livery. By 1984, several members of the class had been repainted in turquoise and cream (which didn't suit them at all), so I wonder whether such locomotives were excluded from the line-up. The ÖBB equivalent 1018, as depicted, soldiered on for several more years. What is that to the right of the 1018 - is it steeple cab 169 003-1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The 118s in particular present quite a corporate image, with nine locos arranged in number sequence all in dark blue livery. By 1984, several members of the class had been repainted in turquoise and cream (which didn't suit them at all), so I wonder whether such locomotives were excluded from the line-up. The ÖBB equivalent 1018, as depicted, soldiered on for several more years. What is that to the right of the 1018 - is it steeple cab 169 003-1? It looks more like 169 005 (side windows not as 003?) Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Thanks for the comments. The steeple cab is 169 003, I have checked on another picture. The Austrian loco is 1118.01 and I suspect was included here as it was one of the original batch that ended up at Salzburg after the war and so joined the OBB fleet - see the caption for the shot with this and 118 055. Most of the post war locos in Austria had started life as the E18.2 class, built specifically for the electrification of the main line to Vienna after the Anschluss, and these became 1018.0x. As Eddie says they lasted in service after the ones in West Germany, until later in the 80's. I saw and photographed them working from their home shed of Linz down to Selzthal in 1986. E18's making it into the turquoise and cream included 13, 28 and 49 - there may have been others. Some were present at the weekend, as were some other blue ones not around the turntable on the Saturday of the posted pictures. I will try to do a few more scans shortly to illustrate these locos. On a related issue I have an N gauge Arnold model of 119 012 in the turquoise and cream - the model is correct with different roof fittings and side grilles to the 118's - but I've never found a picture of the loco in that livery - any ideas? John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted July 29, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2014 Nice pics! Also had a brose through your East Germany pics as well which has prompted a 'eh?' in my brain. Lead coach of the train of Rekowagen behind 142103 at Bitterfeld... anyone know the type designation for this? It looks like a 4-axle shorter reko baggage, with 2 sets of fold-back doors. Not a reko type I was previously aware of. A bit of digging found this: http://bahnbilder.burkhkoe.de/TT-BILDER/TT-Dgs_DR_Dgs_xxx_2_bk.jpg so there were some Gepackwagens in the reko series. D'OH!! Of course! I have 2 of the Piko H0 ones in my DR stockboxes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 As far as I know, the last three surviving E19s (including 119 012-3) lasted into 1978, so potentially could have been repainted in turquoise and cream, but I have seen no evidence of it having carried such livery. An article on where to find surviving pre-war electrics in West Germany appeared in an edition of "European Railways" in 1977, noting the repainting of some E18s into that livery, but said nothing regarding the E19s. As far as E18s in turquoise and cream, 043 also carried this livery (there may have been others). (No such loco - see later comment). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 As far as I know, the last three surviving E19s (including 119 012-3) lasted into 1978, so potentially could have been repainted in turquoise and cream, but I have seen no evidence of it having carried such livery. An article on where to find surviving pre-war electrics in West Germany appeared in an edition of "European Railways" in 1977, noting the repainting of some E18s into that livery, but said nothing regarding the E19s. As far as E18s in turquoise and cream, 043 also carried this livery (there may have been others). The turquoise/beige livery was introduced in 1974. As the class 119's were on the way out, no major repairs were carried out until withdrawal in 1978. Any major fault on a loco and it was taken out of service. The DB have never been lavish with money for repaints anyway. There were plenty of old liveried loco's well into the 1990's. Sadly Arnold were never that bothered with 100% accuracy. Infact I think we have a bity of a "rose coloured spectacle" view of the Germany produced models in general. The comments by enthusiasts on German forums tend to reinforce this. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 In the last few days I've added some more pictures, including 144021 & 118013 in turquoise and cream - further to the comments above. The link is www.flickr.com/photos/51265696@N03 John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_S_Wood Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Great pictures John. First time I've seen the E18 in that livery. Nice. Cheers Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Pleased to see that the link has been fixed, and I must say that I find the turquoise/cream livery on an E18 more appealling now than I did then. First time I've seen an E44 in that livery, too - I never realised they wore anything other than [braunschweig?] green. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Pleased to see that the link has been fixed, and I must say that I find the turquoise/cream livery on an E18 more appealling now than I did then. First time I've seen an E44 in that livery, too - I never realised they wore anything other than [braunschweig?] green. Yes, Flickr seemed to be having a little fit when I wrote my last post but sorted itself out after re-typing! I don't know how many 144's were in the turquoise and cream, only a handful I suspect, and my big E44 book unfortunately is in store a hundred miles away. The ones in the DDR appear to have had a different shade of green (as did their E94's), and also had, in the main, the red bogie frames which makes them look quite different. I do have an Minitrix E44 in gray, which if authentic was presumably an exhibition livery when the locos were new back in the '30's. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekoboy Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 This website is a brilliant source of information for all fans of electrics www.elektrolok.de I can thoroughly recommend it!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yes, Flickr seemed to be having a little fit when I wrote my last post but sorted itself out after re-typing! I don't know how many 144's were in the turquoise and cream, only a handful I suspect, and my big E44 book unfortunately is in store a hundred miles away. The ones in the DDR appear to have had a different shade of green (as did their E94's), and also had, in the main, the red bogie frames which makes them look quite different. I do have an Minitrix E44 in gray, which if authentic was presumably an exhibition livery when the locos were new back in the '30's. John. I've looked out my Eisenbahn Journal Sonderausgaben from the early 'nineties - E44 in one edition, E18 and E19 in another. According to the former, just two E44s (021 and 071) carried turquoise and cream livery. As for the DR locos, unfortunately my only photos of their E44 (244) and E94 (254) - one of each - were taken in black and white, and too long ago to remember if it was the same shade of green as their DB counterparts. I don't recall the bogie frames as red, although I do have a Piko model of an E44 from that time so coloured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekoboy Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The pre-war electrics of classes E04, E44, E91 and E94 which were in service in the area of the Soviet Zone of Occupation were confiscated in 1946 along with all of the power supply equipment and the catenary. The so-called Mitteldeutsches Netz of electrification stretched from Probstzella on the Thuringia/ Bavaria border up to Halle, Leipzig and on to Magdeburg via Köthen and via Dessau and included the very first German electric main line from Bitterfeld to Dessau. The Russians used the elecric locos and equipment to carry out a comparison of 15 Kv and 25 Kv systems and decided on the latter. The DR was able to get back most of the material taken for reparations in the early 1950s - in exchange, it is said, for a huge order of passenger coaches built at Halle-Ammendorf and other works. Because the Russians had very roughly re-gauged the electric loco fleet and equipped them with automatic couplers there was a lot of work to be done before the first re-electrified route from Halle to Köthen (birthplace of Frau Rekoboy!) could be back in action. The double re-gauging, as it were, of the locos made them very prone to cracks in bogies. Cracks could be much more easily spotted with a lighter, contrasting paint scheme - so the red colour was not only appealing but was needed to reveal potentially dangerous defects. For more info the book by Bäzold and Fiebig 'Elektrische Lokomotiven deutscher Eisenbahnen' published by Transpress in E Berlin and later by the ALBA-Verlag in Düsseldorf is brilliant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekoboy Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 And a few more photos of those lovely vintage DR electrics. The E 04 is my favourite and there is one usually exhibited on the museum platform track at Leipzig Hbf. In the late 1950s and early 60s the E 04s were the backbone of express services over the Leipzig-Magdeburg and Leipzig-Zwickau-Dresden routes until the E 11 and E 42 locos as the first new DR electrics were introduced. Last time I forgot to add the E 18 to the list of DR locos - there were only a couple left in the Soviet zone but they made it back into service, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hallo Herr Rekoboy! Wonderful, wonderful photos, I simply adore those pre-war elloks and thanks so much for relating the reason why DDR elloks had their underframes painted red. I had always assumed it was merely following steam lok style! Do you know when this paint scheme was introduced, please? I wondered if any of the E95's were ever so painted as my model in era 111 and all the pictures I've ever seen of the real thing have a black underframe. I know the E95's had all been withdrawn by the end of the sixties! Best regards, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_S_Wood Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Great pictures Rekoboy, this is turning out be a very informative thread. Cheers Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekoboy Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 In answer to Allegheny 1600's question - I am sorry to say I do not know very much! As far as I am aware all of the electrics that were put through the works in Dessau and restored to health following their return from the USSR were given the DR green and red. The E 95, I think, did not get the red paint - I have found a shot of three elderly sisters taken in Halle an der Saale in 2010 and the E 95 has black running gear. Sorry that I cannot be more precise right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 That's okay, thanks anyway. Another cracking shot btw. Cheers, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FelixM Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Wikipedia says: Mitte der 1960er-Jahre erhielten alle Lokomotiven einen roten Anstrich der Laufwerksteile unterhalb des grünen Lokkastens, also auf Rädern, Achsen und Pufferbohlen. Dieser sollte das Erkennen vom Rissen erleichtern, was aufgrund der durch die gewaltsame Umspurung verursachten Schäden nicht unwichtig war. In the mid-60s all locomotives got the red livery below the green body on the wheels, axles and buffer beams. This was in order to easier detect flaws which was not unimportant due to the damages of the forcible regauging. Kind regards Felix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekoboy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I have just gone back to the E 44 chapter in Bäzold and Fiebig's 'Elektrische Lokomotiven deutscher Eisenbahnen' and found a date for the first application of red to bogies and frames in order to help spot cracks! The first lady to be treated was E 44 030 which left RAW Dessau on 28th June 1961 as the 46th and last E 44 to be returned to service. Here's another photo - sadly not of 030! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 I have just gone back to the E 44 chapter in Bäzold and Fiebig's 'Elektrische Lokomotiven deutscher Eisenbahnen' and found a date for the first application of red to bogies and frames in order to help spot cracks! The first lady to be treated was E 44 030 which left RAW Dessau on 28th June 1961 as the 46th and last E 44 to be returned to service. Here's another photo - sadly not of 030! e-44-244-108-7.jpg This is turning into quite an enthralling saga! I'd be curious to know the date and time of the various photos - I'm guessing that most are fairly recent and in preservation, although the one of E04 01 is less clear. 218 031 was retained in VES - Halle for experimental work, and the oval plate to this effect can be seen on the lower bodyside. Its interesting that the red bogies appeared some years after the older electrics returned to service - after problems in service perhaps? The first electric line to be reinstated was from Halle to Koethen in 1955, if I remember correctly, with a special hauled by an E44, and so it was six years later that the red bogies first appeared. The authorities must then have decided this paint scheme was generally a good idea, as the DR neubauelloks of classes 211, 242, 250 & 251( Ruebelandbahn) had the same, although they would never have gone through the re-gauging process by the USSR. I don't really understand the engineering of this - in order to regauge the wheels are obviously further out on their axles - like EM! - but for just over three inches would that have also required the bogies to be cut and re-welded so that the sides were further apart? If so were the "cracks" as a result of this re-welding? Whatever the traumas of the re-gauging, a number of the E94's/ 254's lasted in service until the end of the DDR in 1990, and there have obviously been a fair few survivors of other classes as well! Its also worth mentioning that the DDR also adopted the paint scheme of red bogies and green bodywork for their extensive production of industrial electrics, for example as used in the coal industry. Photographic evidence also makes clear that in service, particularly in industrial areas, the red became fairly grubby and brown quite quickly, as one might expect. Somewhere in the collection I have some DR electric shots at the end of their service lives, and will try to do some scans. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekoboy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Oh dear - you have just set me off on a topic which causes my son Konrad to comment that he cannot imagine a more geeky interest in life! The topic is the railways and plant of the brown coal mining industry! You mentioned industrial electrics in the GDR - LEW 'Hans Beimler' in Hennigsdorf produced huge numbers of BoBo industrial electrics for export and for the home brown coal mines. The EL 2 (produced from 1952 on) was standard-gauge, the EL 3 was 900mm gauge. The two present-day successors to the Braunkohlekombinate are Vattenfall Mining based in the region around Cottbus which operates modernised EL 2s as EL 2m (see photo) and MIBRAG (Mitteldeutsche Braunkohle AG) which has open cast pits south of Leipzig and which operates EL 2s, too. They are fantastic machines with an array of pantographs for the standard catenary and for the offset side catenary used near the excavators. The excavators, by the way, are immense, about the size of an office block! Should you ever be in the vicinity of Gräfenhainichen near Bitterfeld there is a wonderful museum of the brown coal industry and the excavators are used as the backdrop, suitably floodlit, for open-air concerts. See www.ferropolis.de for brilliant pics and more detail! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 I can see why you are so taken with this. We've never done the Cottbus mines, but did some trips in the Mibrag area in the 90's. The Profen system was still going strong - would you know if it still is? - although some of the mines had closed and the huge diggers were parked in a field nearby! The depot authorities at Mibrag were very friendly, but a little surprised we felt to find a middle aged English couple choosing their installation for a holiday jaunt. Incidentally, Henningsdorf industrial locos were exported, as were those of Skoda, and I saw some very large articulated electrics working at Anshan, Manchuria in 1995. Definitely feel some scans coming on knowing there is interest! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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