West Riding Themed Layout Comments Welcomed

[BurscoughCurves]

Hi,

 

I have been planning a layout for some time now, and am about to move into a new home. I was hoping to get a much larger space in the loft, and slowly convert it, but having seen the roof frame during construction (it's a new-build) it would required major work to convert it structurally and enable the dense joists to be removed.

 

This has left me with a spare room, which has meant I have had to re-think my plans due to the much smaller area available. I still want to keep the theme the same, but fit it into a 3m x 2.1m space.

 

The era will be 1954-1958 and located between Leeds and Wakefield. It will be a fictitious location to allow me to run ex-LNER and ex-LMS trains and locomotives. I briefly thought about N gauge but would rather stick with OO and compromise further! 

 

 

The LMR and NER lines will be totally separate with the NER crossing the LMR therefore resulting in a split level fiddle yard. The upper NER lines will allow me to 'watch trains go by' (including A3's and A4's) whilst the bay & branch and MPD will hopefully provide some operational interest.

 

Only one end of the station will be visible as I don't have nearly enough space to model a decent sized station.

 

I realize I may be trying to cram too much into a small space, but would like to maintain a cramped feel to the lower level areas. Any thoughts on the plan would be greatly appreciated. I am unsure where the signal box would be best located because of the flyover blocking much of the station throat. And I am even more clueless when it comes to signalling!

 

I have already started building part of my MPD (see my blogs for detail on the Northlight Engine Shed);

 

 

 

Again, your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

 

[APOLLO]

I built a similar type of layout (based on Chesterfield Central / Market Place) years ago. Its main bugbear was gradients as the mainline was twice round the room type. Most of my (steam) locos would only haul 4 coaches up them but layout designed for 8. Diesels had no problems. Avoid gradients if at all possible.

 

Nice plan you have, don't worry re cramming too much in, the real thing did the same in many parts of the West Riding.

 

How about a small, easily removable / liftable for access branch line terminus over the fiddle yard ?

 

This is a good website for West Riding railways  http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/index.htm

 

Brit15

[BurscoughCurves]

Hi Brit,

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

I haven't included any gradients yet, just two separate track heights. I like the idea of a removable terminus though thanks.

 

Great link, thanks again.

[Chimer]

Wow, that is busy and tight!  A couple of cautionary thoughts: is there enough room for you and your control panel in the operating well, and what happens when you get a derailment on the Leeds high level line tunnel in the top right corner - four feet (ish) from the well?

[BurscoughCurves]

Hi Chimer,

 

True it is tight! I was thinking of having the lower part of the 'street scene' removable, or indeed cut it back to the parcels bay just leaving the retaining wall.

 

I am also toying with having the layout at quite a high level, so will probably round the back scene a little more to give more access hatches. The room is slightly larger than the layout, but not by too much!

[L&Y]

Like the look of that. Different levels add interest. You will have to watch clearances in the tighter hidden lines & check running carefully. Also gradients. Make sure you can reach everything for maintenance also.  But that looks very promising. Layouts like this seem out of fashion but I think they have a lot to offer. Standing in the middle you lose oval effect completely.  May not be so great for exhibitions but certainly works for a home layout. Build it to the standard of your MPD & it should be a cracker!  Hope you will start a new layout topic for it. 

[DCB]

It looks very tight but good fun.   I would definitely go for a smaller 60 foot turntable rather than the usual 80 foot monstrosity to save a couple of inches and allow a larger well and stop it dominating the layout. I would make the right hand end scenery on an easily removed subframe and put it over the trackwork lengthening the bay an extra few inches and getting a bit more length for the MPD but it looks great,

I would use Set track curves and Peco streamline track as Set track points just gobble up width, so maybe it is time to get out the hacksaw and start sawing chunks off Peco points to get everything to fit.

[BurscoughCurves]

Great comments, thanks.

 

Can you suggest a decent 60ft turntable kit? I have an old Peco 70ft one but I agree it is much too large for the location.

 

The main thing that concerned me is the fact that the down main of the LMR route can run straight into the bay area. I have seen plenty of signal diagrams to suggest this is prototypical though. Would this result in a slower speed restriction for through traffic?

[edcayton]

Have a look at Crewlisle (on here somewhere). It is a masterpiece of getting a quart in a pint pot.

 

Ed

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...cautionary thoughts: is there enough room for you and your control panel in the operating well, and what happens when you get a derailment on the Leeds high level line tunnel in the top right corner - four feet (ish) from the well?

Never mind operating problems, first you have to build the more distant layout structure, lay the track and test, and add any scenic treatment; all before it goes out of easy reach! Many different ways of skinning this cat with modular and phased construction (some of it possibly 'off-site'); but it won't simply happen, you will have to devise a project plan that gets you there. A more advanced form of mental gymnastics than not painting yourself into a corner.

[BurscoughCurves]

Thanks for all the warnings! I just want to get started!

 

Just to note; the plan was drawn in SCARM using Peco code 75 track with a minimum radius of 475mm (just under 19").

 

I'm thinking of attacking the build in the following (very rough) stages;

 

OP10- main loop of LMR running lines complete and tested. NER lines started to be layed:

 

 

OP20- Main loop of NER lines complete and tested. Extreme scenic work complete:

 

 

OP30- MPD added and 'Western end' scenic work complete (note removable 'terraces' and 'street scene'):

 

 

OP40- Fiddle Yard complete:

 

 

And hey presto... all complete! (said with a hint of sarcasm!)

 

Pete 

 

 

[Crewlisle]

Have a look at Crewlisle (on here somewhere). It is a masterpiece of getting a quart in a pint pot.

 

Ed

 

For those of you who have not seen my 00 gauge DCC layout ‘Crewlisle’, it is on 3 interconnected levels with a central operating well because I do not have the luxury of a 20ft long single level layout!  At exhibitions I always ask for my layout to be displayed with 3 sides visible to the public.  The high level with 4 road terminus for 6 coach expresses, goods yard/coach sidings, turntable, steam and diesel sheds are the 3 viewing sides.  The continuous run double track main line on the middle level represents the WCML with portable overhead catenary for scale 100mph running.  All the second radius curves are at each end under the high level.

 

The reversing loop is on the lower level so the trains can leave and return from the mainline/terminus.  The only part of the reversing loop in view is in the central operating well as it leaves the down side of the continuous run under the high level, through the operating well and then goes right under the rest of the layout to rejoin the WCML on the up side at almost the same place from where it leaves.   The layout itself is 2.6M x 2.3M and because it was built to fit a bedroom just over 2.7M square, I did not have the luxury of a fiddle yard to store a large variety of stock.  To me fiddle yards are wasted space.   My fiddle yard is a removable 1.35m section of the reversing loop on the inside of the operating well with 14 identical cartridges loaded with trains stored on a rack underneath the baseboards.  These are restocked from loco/stock storage boxes as required.

 

A total of 46 steam/diesel/electric locos and 179 items of stock are used representing the WCML from the mid 1950s to the mid 1980s so would not appeal to the purists expecting prototypical operation because of the long timescale and restricted space.  Crewlisle is featured in Issue 84 (June 2014) of Hornby Magazine, will be appearing at Hornby Magazine’s Great Electric Train Show in October this year and the 2015 Warley NEC because it entertains.  With two operators (sometimes three) I run a minimum of two trains and sometimes as many as four simultaneously.  Subject to operations, I even let children have a go; what better PR for the next generation of modellers?

 

Peter

[New Haven Neil]

I have looked in awe at your trackplan many times, it certainly is very clever.  However, I just don't get how the reverse loop/cassette is arranged, is there any chance of putting a few dotted lines on to your trackplan?  I'm just trackblind on this!

[Crewlisle]

 

The attached track plan with the top left hand high level removed shows the hidden junctions to provide additional operational flexibility, access to the reversing loop and cartridge exchange. 

 

'Up' is clockwise and 'Down' anticlockwise.  At the top, the line joining the down line is the relief line from the mainline station.  The trailing crossover allows trains to come up the reversing loop to access the up mainline.  This is only used if there are any trains stored on the other part of the reversing loop or changing from diesel to electric traction in the through station (electric/diesel loco waiting in the sidings 'disappears' into tunnel on relief line and reappears from same tunnel as happens at Birmingham New Street!).

 

Normally, trains leave the down main onto the reversing loop into the operating well.  The straight section of the reversing loop is the removable cartridge.  The reversing loop continues under the right hand baseboard, rising up under the high level goods yard and joins the up main as shown on this track plan more or less opposite from where it leaves the down main.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Peter

 

 

[BurscoughCurves]

Thanks Peter, Crewlise is the perfect example of an excellent tardis layout! Do you have issues with hard to reach de-railments?

[New Haven Neil]

Thank you for that, I would never have worked it out.  The reverse loop must have a fearsome gradient?

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[Crewlisle]

Access for derailments:  I have lift out panels at bottom LH corner in diesel shed; top LH corner in front of TT (including signal box);  whole of two road steam shed at top; terminus station frontage at top RH corner complete with road.  Track under LH baseboard can also be accessed from operating well.  As the bottom goods yard is a hinged removable baseboard (lowered for access to airing cupboard!) the rising reversing loop to up main is fitted to lower outside edge of central baseboard so access is easy from the underside.

 

Gradients:  I have the minimum height between levels to reduce the gradients required. It made it very difficult to fit OLE in the tunnels of the middle level continuous run (even though it is only 1.5mm steel wire stuck to underside of high level baseboards to guide the pantograph over wires/point motors)! The visible gradient from the continuous run main line up to the high level terminus is 1:38; reversing loop through operating well cartridge exchange is 1:28 (normal direction is down but if required to go up, a little help from the 'big hand in the sky'! This is no problem as it is in the operating well.); reversing loop to up main line (under high level goods yard baseboard) is 1:33. All my pacific steam locos can handle six Bachmann Mk 1s (internal weights removed from coaches and additional weight in locos) both running and from a standing start from adverse signals (except the 1:28). 4-6-0s (Hornby, Mainline and Bachmann) and other steam locos can handle five Mk 1s or six ex-Airfix Stanier coaches (weights removed). I have a couple of tender drive steam locos with traction tyres - no problem. All diesels have plenty of weight to handle any sized train.

 

I have recently fitted DCC Concepts Powerbase to the reversing loop rising to the up main line but have not yet had time to fit the magnets to locos and test them.  This will hopefully allow more locos haul heavier loads.

However, as other contributors on gradients have said, keep gradients away from curves as you tend to lose traction on them. My gradients are relatively steep because I wanted to get a lot of railway in a small space.

 

Peter