Scottish Loco Poll

[Guest Max Stafford]

I suppose we could all join the SRPS ourselves. Perhaps this could also give us a degree of influence inside too.

Same goes for those of you who are involved with the company societies.

 

Sorry about the multiple postings. This was originally sent by phone and went a bit mental!

 

Dave.

[Caledonian]

Just to keep you in the loop:

 

Dear Mr Lovett,

 

Thank you for your very comprehensive response to my letter concerning Scottish locomotives, I and my colleagues appreciated the trouble you took to explain Bachmann’s position and gave us both food for thought and a certain degree of optimism.

 

As you will have gathered from the data sheets attached to my original letter we have already gone through the process of whittling down the many possibilities to achieve a surprising degree of consensus in the poll (now over 100 respondents) on those models which fit the criteria outlined in your letter

 

While we appreciate that this sample, like all polls, is still a relatively small one, we are currently discussing how we can reach out to a wider audience and form a better picture of the likely size of the market and will keep you advised as to progress.

 

In the meantime however I would point out that at the present time a unique opportunity exists in the complete absence of any RTR 00 scale Scottish locomotives, which means there is every likelihood that Scottish modellers who would otherwise carefully weigh up the competing attractions of say a re-tooled B1 or a Jubilee against a Black 5 or a Clan, will have absolutely no hesitation at all in buying a 439.

[Caledonian]

You have to be careful here as to the demand for any loco, at the model shop in Glasgow which I have a connection to, sales of the original batch of Clans, both early and late only reached around the fifty mark, and we were not embarrassed by lots of requests when out of stock. The Polmadie Black 5 did not sell in large numbers and indeed a good few are still in stock! We have also not had one single order for the new clan or indeed any orders as yet for the new Scottish A3 (Brown Jack). The prices for these are competitive so not all are going to the "box shifters".

 

While keeping our feet on the ground on this question, I doubt if these low sales are a valid indicator of the likely level of support for a 439 or a J36. I was tempted by a Clan, but in the end decided that a third Black 5 was going to be more useful, partly because there's a limit to what you can do with Pacifics and partly because a solid stable of Black 5s gives a better representation of a northern Scottish line than a bag of all-sorts. as it happens having 45458 available was a bonus, but if it hadn't been, I would just have renumbered whatever was available. Same goes for Brown Jack; I've already got Windsor Lad so I really don't need another A3.

 

What we're currently proposing on the other hand is an entirely new Scottish locomotive, rather than putting a Scottish number on something that's been available for years

[coachmann]

The Bullied Q1 never ventured further than about 75 miles of London and was rarely seen in the West of England.

Perhaps Hornby assumed anything for down south would sell like hot cakes, although there was likely no evidence it would.

 

To speculate with a J36 for Bonnie Scotland might have been a safer bet. It's an untapped market that just might accumilate a few sheckles for the shareholders. Worth a gamble? I'd say so after the Q1.

[Western Scottish]

Only problem is I don't think the Q1 was a particularly giood seller. No official figures of course, I just base this on the fact they were on offer on Hattons for a long time and have now disappeared from the catalogue, after a relatively short period of time.

 

But the Q1 is another reason why we should have hope. As well as being geographically limited ,it was only ever black, and quite frankly was an ugly machine. Certainly if you didn't need one I reckon very few people would buy it because it was attractive. With out choices you have pre grouping liveries (lovely Caley Blue I hope), LMS or LNER liveries and BR early and late crests. Plus any of the three main candidates is much more attractive than a Q1!

 

It does seem to have gone quiet on the Scottish loco front. I hope everyone is voting in the MRE mag poll. Also Hornby website also has a page where you can request your top 3 locos.

 

Other than that all we can do is canvass the main societies. Here's hoping 2012 brings a nice surprise!

[Caledonian]

One reason its gone quiet is that I've been suffering from a horrid lurgy this past week; nothing life threatening, but I haven't had the energy.

 

As I said earlier, I can easily draft up some letters to the likes of the SRPS - and am hoping to get up to Bo'ness again at Easter - but we still need to figure out a way of actually recording interest in a way that can be presented to Bachmann.

 

I have very good reason to believe that Mr Lovett is interested (there's a couple of clues in the Bachmann Collectors Club magazines) but he needs evidence.

[Western Scottish]

Thanks Caledonian. When (hopefully not if) we get our Scottish loco , you should get an honorary one!

 

Hope you recover from the Lurgy!

[Caledonian]

I've just sent the letter below to the SRPS, and propose sending the same to any Scottish model club whose address I can find. Its been very sensibly suggested by Chard that we really need to form an ad hoc group of about half a dozen or so, who are able to carry this project forward by assembling the information requested by Mr Lovett, so if anybody else wants to offer their services - or can at the very least come up with some names and addresses for the letter below, please drop me a PM

 

Scottish Locomotive Models

 

As you will be aware, other than the rather elderly Hornby representations of the Caley single wheeler and ex-North British J83, there are currently no 00 scale Scottish steam locomotives available in ready to run condition, leaving modellers with no alternative but to build kits or rely entirely on non-specific types such as the Black Five.

 

Following an extensive period of consultation on the RMweb site two locomotives have been identified as potentially being the most attractive to Scottish modellers; the Caledonian Railway Class 439 tank and the North British Railway Class C/J36.

 

Both locomotives were to be found all over Scotland in a variety of roles and indeed to examples of the Class C/J36 were the last steam locomotives operated by British Railways in Scotland.

 

A preliminary business case for producing either or both of these models has been presented to both Hornby and Bachmann, but they require to be convinced of the likely viability of Scottish steam locomotives and I would therefore be very glad if you would pose a simple question to your members.

 

If an RTR 00 scale model of a 439 or a Class C/J36 were to be available, how many would buy one?

 

I do not require any form of commitment to doing so, or contact details of anyone expressing interest, just a straightforward indication of the likely numbers.

 

I appreciate that obtaining this information will require a little time and effort, but your co-operation will go a long way to achieving the aim of providing Scottish modellers with the locomotives they require.

[Caledonian]

Thanks Caledonian. When (hopefully not if) we get our Scottish loco , you should get an honorary one!

 

Hope you recover from the Lurgy!

 

An honorary one? That'll be a presentation box with a photo of a model 439 inside it

[Western Scottish]

Following an extensive period of consultation on the RMweb site two locomotives have been identified as potentially being the most attractive to Scottish modellers; the Caledonian Railway Class 439 tank and the North British Railway Class C/J36.

 

I thought there were three front runners, by combining the votes for the Jumbo/812? Thats certainly how I voted in the MREmag poll.

[Guest Max Stafford]

You're quite correct of course, but perhaps it would be best if we chanelled our efforts in to these two to get started.

 

Dave.

[Caledonian]

I thought there were three front runners, by combining the votes for the Jumbo/812? Thats certainly how I voted in the MREmag poll.

 

Yes indeed, but the Jumbo is slightly problematic in that while adding votes for the 812 will lift it over the 50% mark, there isn't a preserved example to copy. That's not an insuperable problem of course and I'd still look forward to being able to buy one at some point.

 

However as Max says its going to be better at this stage to focus our efforts on just the two, partly because they achieved the highest scores in the poll and partly because the existence of preserved ones increases the chance of one of the manufacturers picking them up. Then, once we've got the foot in door, the Jumbo will have more chance of following than leading so to speak

[Western Scottish]

I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense to concentrate on the 439 and J36 , both preserved by SRPS. I wonder , though, given the new set of circumstances outlined by Dennis ie that preserved locos have more chance of production , that the 812 class may have achieved higher votes and that those who voted for Jumbo wouldn't now transfer their votes en masse to the 812. In addition the 812 has just undergone a rebuild and will appear this year on the Aviemore line. So I wouldn't want to discount it. Cumulatively a Caledonian 0-6-0 scored 73 votes, which would have put it to the head of the poll.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to criticise but I think anyone analysing the poll may come to the same conclusion.

[davknigh]

A reminder to those who have not voted yet that the MREmag poll closes in 6 days. This is another opportunity to show Bachmann and Hornby that there is a massive groundswell of support for Scottish locos. As an added bonus you can also nominate appropriate rolling stock to follow your engines

The poll can be found at; http://www.mremag.com/ scroll to the bottom of the day's news and click away!

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Hammer]

The Macintosh and the Cally Jumbo heading up the LMS category in MREMag poll with the J36 ending up 16th overall. Another half dozen LNER 0-6-0s also polled highly as well.

 

Also worth noting that the P2 - a very Scottish class - also polled highly. I'm not sure how likely that class is to be picked up though, since there were a good few major variations between the members of the class. (Not that that stops me form voting for it).

 

Not too bad at all.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Noticing also that the ex-GN J6 is topping the LNER chart followed in virtual formation by the J27, J15 and J36, it would appear that the LNER group's organisation is also effective.

I think we're doing the right thing here. Although ultimately it's just a poll, the MREmag polls have in the past undoubtedly had considerable bearing on the production programmes of the big players. There are grounds for a small degree of optimism here, but there is still much work to be done.

 

Dave.

[S.A.C Martin]

Also worth noting that the P2 - a very Scottish class - also polled highly. I'm not sure how likely that class is to be picked up though, since there were a good few major variations between the members of the class. (Not that that stops me form voting for it).

 

You never know...give it a few weeks and you might change your mind about that

[Hammer]

You never know...give it a few weeks and you might change your mind about that

 

You never know

[Bob Reid]

You never know...give it a few weeks and you might change your mind about that

 

What there going to produce the 439 Class after all? - jeez that was a curved ball Simon

 

Okay so whose going to tell MRE Mag' that the term is "Caley" not Cale, as in Kail - Cabbage? when referring to the True Line!

 

That wasn't such a bad result though - 7th Overall for the 439 Class..... Another foot in the door!

[60B]

Last year the 439 was WAY down the list. Its a small victory, but a victory all the same.

[Caledonian]

Back from my Easter Hols which managed to take in Bo’ness, Harburn Hobbies, Abbey Models and a totally uncovenanted treat of a black LNER loco and support coach steaming eastwards at some speed past the Halbeath Travel-lodge on Tuesday evening. (anybody?)

Anyway, a good result in the MREmag poll. Pat Hammond has in the past been disapproving of “canvassing†but there’s no doubt that our own little effort here did focus minds on an achievable result.

We now need to keep the momentum going. Although I only mentioned the 439 and the J36 in the letter to the SRPS (seeing as how they have examples of both) there’s no reason why the Jumbo shouldn’t be included in the letter to the modelling clubs – but I do need addresses/contact details, or even volunteers to forward copies of the letter themselves.

[Caledonian]

I've been taking a bit of a rest from this one to catch up on the rest of life, like completing my Wood Badge, but it hasn't gone away.

 

On the positive side we've managed to come up with a pretty sound concensus on a couple of suitable locomotives which are likely to sell and as a result had some equally positive coverage in the modelling press; Hornby Magazine in particular seems to like the idea of a 439.

 

However we still need to move the campaign out beyond cyberspace and start convincing retailers, whether all by ourselves or by getting our friends, relations, fellow model club members and dogs (not necessarily in that order), that there is a demand for RTR locomotives which they in turn can feed back to the manufacturers.

 

This isn't a one man band - it needs all of us.

 

In the meantime, an odd little question occurred to me the other night. Way back, Hornby produced the Caley 294 and 123, and the ex-North British J83 and some mock Caley coaches.

Why? About 30 years ago Scottish outline stock accounted for a significant proportion of Hornby's catalogue. Why was that and why has it slipped?

[Guest Max Stafford]

Way back, Hornby produced the Caley 294...

 

Oh, if only Stuart...!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_294_Class

 

Freudian slip, I assume...!

 

Dave.

[Caledonian]

oops :blush: I was of course referring to the puggy :blush:

[Allegheny1600]

Afternoon Gents,

As i've always had a fondness for pretty much all things Scottish, i've added my vote for the 439 0-4-4T, 298 0-6-0 & the Pickersgill 4-4-0.

I would actually buy one of them too! Yet, i don't actively model Scottish scenes!

Best of luck with your endevours,

John E.