Scottish Loco Poll

[Pennine MC]

 

Bearing in mind that Bachmann have revealed this morning that they can make a business case for releasing a pre-grouping 2-8-0 from a class of 11 locos, used on a single route, (albeit a high-profile and much-modelled line, and a class of loco which enjoys a high profile amongst enthusiasts) then I reckon they ought to be open-minded enough to take a realistic look at the prospects for something Scottish in future.

 

 

 

GPWM. Do we know if the 7F ever achieved the 'magic 9,000'? *If* it did, did it gain them straight off or (much more likely) through a small band of proponents raising awareness of it until enough other people latched onto it and added their votes?

[Guest Max Stafford]

I wonder how the coupled wheelbase and driver diameter of the 3F compares with a Jumbo...

 

Dave.

[Guest stuartp]

People (including manufacturers) have been telling us for years that AC electrics and nuclear flask wagons don't/won't sell, and lo and behold....

 

Slowly slowly catchee Jumbo and all that. Mind you, if the PP&W ever gets as popular as the S&D is I'll have to find another niche to model that nobody's heard of ! Move along now, nothing to see here, Waverley route that way, West Highland over there...

['CHARD]

Hehehehe - the Waverley's transition legacy will be safe enough. Once there's a few thou cube of concrete poured and a Saltire-clad Turbostar pounding Borthwick, we'll have forgotten what all the fuss was about

[Jamie]

Slowly slowly catchee Jumbo and all that. Mind you, if the PP&W ever gets as popular as the S&D is I'll have to find another niche to model that nobody's heard of ! Move along now, nothing to see here, Waverley route that way, West Highland over there...

 

In which case I'll similarly revert to the Maidens & Dunure

 

Pennine, the magic 9000 wasn't votes, per the email reproduced by A.Y. - also, what's GPWM stand for?

['CHARD]

Good point well made, AFAIK

[Guest Max Stafford]

I'm with Stuart on this one. I remember the proclamation about 'sparkies' being non-sellers a couple of years back and it was at the back of my mind following what I heard at Glasgow.

Keep the hard sell up boys and never say never!

Is the heid better Phil?

 

Dave.

[steamrailuk]

We shouldn't be giving up now and heading off to get specialist small batches made or kits. True it may not be quite what we wanted to hear from Hornby or Bachmann; Bare in mind though that this poll has only really got started not that long ago. What we should be doing is gathering together all our time and energy into proving to them that there is a significant market for Pre-Grouping Scottish locos in rtr form.

 

Once we have the gained enough evidence to back up that there is a market. We should have a much better chance at pressing home our requests and in doing so; much like the Southern region models will open up the oppertunity of a whole range of Scottish region locos and rolling stock to complement the ones we wish for at the moment.

 

I wouldn't take too much from them saying that they maybe too specialist. If you consider that they've produced locos such as the Clans, which in my opinion is a specialist loco considering it is rarely mentioned when discussing the standard classes and was only a class of 10 locos. When you consider that, our hopes for Scottish region locos may not sound too far fetched. In my opinion I've always considered Bachmann as being the more specialist of the two when you look at their range of locos over the years like the V3 tank, J39, WD 2-8-0, Collet Goods, Super D, 3MT, O4 etc. I feel they are generally been more open to the lesser known and "workhorse" locos; although Hornby has shown some signs of that too like when they introduced the Thompson L1 this year.

 

As said earlier we represent only a small percentage of all the British Railway modellers. To get more support we should try writing to magazines such as Railway Modeller, Hornby, British Railway Modeller and putting forward our case, which should hopefully help gain more support among our fellow modellers. We still got a long to go guys but we shouldnt give up now, all this effort will pay off and we will finally be able to have Scottish region represented in rtr form.

[Caledonian]

At the moment I'm content to wait a little while and see what happens; as of this post there were actually 91 responses to the poll and while the actual figures are fluctuating the picture remains clear and steady with both the 439 tank and the Class 3/J36 coming top on their own and the Jumbo/812 overall top once the figures are disentangled from those voting for both.

 

Whatever way you look at it there's a very clear demand for three locomotive types used all over Scotland and, very literally in the case of the J36, up to the end of British Railways steam in Scotland.

 

Now going on from that there are two other important points to be made when we get a formal response from Hornby and Bachmann. Firstly there is an undeniable demand for Scottish locomotives and while not all of those participating voted for a 439 or a J36 I find it very hard to believe that they wouldn't buy one if offered.

 

Secondly, while in global terms this is a small poll it does equate to just over 10% of this one forum and as has been pointed out earlier in the thread all polls are based on relatively small population samples. If 10% of RTR modellers want Scottish outline locomotives that's a big market, and even if we round it down to reflect the importance of RMweb vis a vis other sites, and those who don't play on the internet at all, we have still got a very significant sample here.

 

As to spreading the word, I'm doing my best, but its up to you lot to pitch in as well

[davknigh]

I suppose we should take the recent news from Bachmann as encouragement. S&D 7Fs were hardly ubiquitous yet here is a model being planned of one for mass distribution. IIRC the 7F featured on the MREmag poll on a number of occasions so here is another route to follow; http://www.mremag.com/ is the starting point with the poll located at the bottom of the day's news.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Caledonian]

Arithmetic was never my strong point

 

However: a response from Simon Kohler:

 

"Thank you for your letter as well as the fact files for the three Scottish locomotives that you and many of your associates would like to see produced as a 1:76 scale model.

 

"I am most appreciative of the research etc that you and your associates have obviously carried out and although I cannot promise or give hope, the locomotives that you propose do certainly give food for thought."

 

Now, OK on one level this could be read as a polite thank you but... On the other hand, given the traditional secrecy on announcements of forthcoming models there's no way on God's Green Earth that he was ever going to come back to us and say "what a splendid idea and he's going to get his elves working on at least one of them right away"

 

We've made an acknowledged start; we all now need to build on that. The easy bit is making sure the favourites (up to 92 pollsters now) appear on every wish list going; not forgetting Hornby's very own one. What we've also got to do is raise the profile of Scottish layouts and make them seen as sexy.

 

Mention has been made above of Bachmann's announcements anent the S&DJR. Neither of the locos are going to be much good to us, but, this is a railway which on the face of it has a pretty rotten business case for investment; its small, localised and had hardly any locos of its own; yet whether or not its tremendously popular right now its certainly got a pretty high profile, thanks to the efforts of the likes of Tim Maddocks. The point is that we have the potential to do the same, if not better. I and a lot of others who've contributed to this poll model Scottish railways because we are Scottish, but its not an exclusive club. How many S&DJR modellers actually live on or near to the original line; not that many I suspect but it certainly hasn't cramped their style.

 

We need to do the same with Scottish layouts. "West Highland" ones have always been popular with D&E modellers, but steam offers just as much potential if not more; A3s on the Waverley route, A4s on the four hour Glasgow to Aberdeen; the Killin puggies and the "lost" CR lines in Angus. There's a huge, exciting potential out there to attract non-Scottish modellers if we can raise the profile and ultimately create even more demand for Scottish outline locos.

[Pennine MC]

yet whether or not its tremendously popular right now its certainly got a pretty high profile, thanks to the efforts of the likes of Tim Maddocks

 

That's because he's put about the idea you can run literally anything on it, from a Beattie well tank to a prototype Deltic

[Caledonian]

That's because he's put about the idea you can run literally anything on it, from a Beattie well tank to a prototype Deltic

 

And you can't in Scotland? B)

['CHARD]

And you can't in Scotland?

 

Time to wave the ECL* flag again I fear. Yes, apart from the blindingly obvious like A4s on freight and 4-coach Class 2 parlies, the Waverley can boast Pannier Tanks and a Toffee Apple Brush Type 2, a brace of Lord Nelsons and proper D1-10 Peaks, Class 50s and arguably one of the Type 4 D/E prototypes with a dynamometer car, if not on a service train. By rational extension of this logic, I reckon we'll know it's the year of the Scottish Modeller when one of the Big Two announces the B*** P******.

 

 

* Edinburgh - Carlisle Line (source: Quail)

[Invicta]

We've made an acknowledged start; we all now need to build on that. The easy bit is making sure the favourites (up to 92 pollsters now) appear on every wish list going; not forgetting Hornby's very own one. What we've also got to do is raise the profile of Scottish layouts and make them seen as sexy.

 

Mention has been made above of Bachmann's announcements anent the S&DJR. Neither of the locos are going to be much good to us, but, this is a railway which on the face of it has a pretty rotten business case for investment; its small, localised and had hardly any locos of its own; yet whether or not its tremendously popular right now its certainly got a pretty high profile, thanks to the efforts of the likes of Tim Maddocks. The point is that we have the potential to do the same, if not better. I and a lot of others who've contributed to this poll model Scottish railways because we are Scottish, but its not an exclusive club. How many S&DJR modellers actually live on or near to the original line; not that many I suspect but it certainly hasn't cramped their style.

 

We need to do the same with Scottish layouts. "West Highland" ones have always been popular with D&E modellers, but steam offers just as much potential if not more; A3s on the Waverley route, A4s on the four hour Glasgow to Aberdeen; the Killin puggies and the "lost" CR lines in Angus. There's a huge, exciting potential out there to attract non-Scottish modellers if we can raise the profile and ultimately create even more demand for Scottish outline locos.

 

I think that makes a lot of sense- as you say, there seems to be a very visible interest in, and awareness of the S&DJR amongst both modellers and enthusiasts in general- and they can't all have been born and bred within a 50 mile radius of Evercreech Junction. Equally, not every potential modeller of Scottish layouts, or buyer of a future Bachmann/Hornby '439' is going to be North of the Border, any more than Hornby's Arthurs, M7s and T9s are selling exclusively in SR territory, so any effort to raise the profile of Scottish modelling in general ought to help.

[Hammer]

I am left wondering how best to promote modelling Scotland.

After all, my own layout in progress is of such a size that it could be anywhere in the world, let alone in the UK. Admittedly it's specifically on the GNSR, but I'm running whatever I can get my hands on that might have worked out of Kitty.

 

Edit: That said, converting one of the new Derby Lightwights to the BEMU is certainly something from that area that's pretty unique.

[60B]

To raise the profile of scot railways, whats needed is a couple of top-notch layouts at exhibitions down south. Annan Road and maybe something up my end of the world. Dava is to appear at London and I worry as it was in a sorry when I saw it last summer.

[60B]

Well, Stuart's letter is in this months HM. The pic (ooh get you) is of a 439 at Kyle and looks rather charming.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I am left wondering how best to promote modelling Scotland. ...

As regards the late BR steam period, perhaps it is the possibility of a range of locations, both main line and branches, where the pre-group types and LMS and LNER designs genuinely worked side by side, along with BR equipment, plus some occasional exotics. And then there's that scenery. A flagship exhibition layout like 'The Gresley Beat' or 'Stoke Summit' wouldn't hurt; get permission sponsorship from the distillery and call it 'The Famous Grouse'...

[davknigh]

There may be a new player in the game. http://maytex.rapidotrains.com/index.html . I have seen the work that Rapido has done on Canadian prototypes and the detail on these models is fantastic. They specifically mention UK prototypes in their intro so may be interested in an inroad into the UK market. Jason Shron, the man behind Rapido, is a fiend for accuracy so a product from him would be a good one.

 

HTH

 

David

 

BTW I should add the usual disclaimer of having no connection with the company other than a satisfied customer.

Edited March 12, 2010 by davknigh

[Caledonian]

Well, Stuart's letter is in this months HM. The pic (ooh get you) is of a 439 at Kyle and looks rather charming.

 

Letter was slightly butchered removing reference to the poll (96 responses now) and the Glasgow show which was fair enough as its been and gone, but I thought it was interesting that Mike Wild added that photo and referred to the 439 as charming.

 

Only his opinion of course but it does suggest there could be a wider potential for interest in Scottish locomotives and as himself observes:

 

"As regards the late BR steam period, perhaps it is the possibility of a range of locations, both main line and branches, where the pre-group types and LMS and LNER designs genuinely worked side by side, along with BR equipment, plus some occasional exotics."

 

Its those branch lines - and more than just Ian Futers' West Highland ones - and the mixture of stock which have the greatest potential to enthuse, rather than the big flagship ones like Alloa.

[Invicta]

To raise the profile of scot railways, whats needed is a couple of top-notch layouts at exhibitions down south. Annan Road and maybe something up my end of the world. Dava is to appear at London and I worry as it was in a sorry when I saw it last summer.

 

I guess seeing more articles on Scottish modelling in the magazines wouldn't do any harm either- RM seems to be doing pretty well in that respect at present, (albeit rather diesel-focused) with Brian Sunman's Peffermill Road as ROTM for March, and Ian Futers' Ullapool featured in the April issue (plus a Futers piece on the Cathcart Circle last month). Anyone got a steam-era Scottish layout they fancy writing up for one of the mags?

 

If people are going to be encouraged to model Scottish railways, and generate a market for specifically Scottish locos and stock, then what might help tip the balance is providing them with inspiration- whether it's seeing a top-notch layout at an exhibition or in the latest mag, or reading an article on an interesting Scottish location that's just asking to be modelled

[26power]

Interesting link.

 

Given the discussion re the Heljan 86 on the relevant thread, is this reference "and we know our Class 86 from our Class of 68." just a coincidence?

 

Cheers,

 

26power

 

 

 

 

 

 

There may be a new player in the game. http://maytex.rapido....com/index.html . I have seen the work that Rapido has done on Canadian prototypes  and the detail on these models is fantastic. They specifically mention UK prototypes in their intro so may be interested in an inroad into the UK market. Jason Shron, the man behind Rapido, is a fiend for accuracy so a product from him would be a good one.

 

HTH

 

David

 

BTW I should add the usual disclaimer of having no connection with the company other than a satisfied customer.

[Caledonian]

Interesting response from Dennis Lovett at Bachmann (no, not an announcement), I'll post more later after I get back from Scouts

['CHARD]

That'll be the Gloucester twin and 60A Sulzers then

 

Just kidding - looking forward to formulating the next stage of the strategy when we've had time to read and absorb. Cheers for the taster!