Selby grain elevators

[GWR88]

Morning all,

After being gifted an old 2ft by 1ft shelf by my mum, i've been thinking of a layout i can run my growing collection of BNSF locomotives on. After a bit of research, i found this:http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/Inglenook/inglenook-prototype-selby.html I think it would make an impressive micro layout but i'm not sure what kind of modern hoppers would serve it. Can anyone please tell me the types of hoppers that would serve this place? I'm looking more along the lines of either 2 bay or 3 bay hoppers as space is a premium (i model N scale). Also, any proper dimensions of the two west silos and any photos of the surrounding landscape and the small building by the south spur.

Thanks in advance

Lloyd

[Adrian Wintle]

Likely 50'+ 3- or 4- bay grain hoppers with trough hatches.

Some possibilities:

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/atlas5701.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/atlas5748.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/atlasthrall.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/bachcylhop.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/exactps2cd4427.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/exact5161.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/im4750.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/im4650.html - this is a nice, slightly shorter car

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/im5161.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/imcylhop.html - these are primarily Canadian cars

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/mtevans3bay.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/mtacf3baycf.html - also a nice shorter car

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/rc4750hopper.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/rc4700hopper.html

http://www.spookshow.net/freight/rc4740hopper.html

 

Unfortunately the Streetview cars seem to have only run along the main roads through Selby, SD, but you might be able to size the silos from the aerial photos in Google Maps or Bing Maps. 

 

Adrian

[GWR88]

Thank you adrian.The only photo i can gauge the size of the silo off of is on the inglenook website with the silo next to an SUV type car. Are the 3 bay cars all 50' long? Also,what liveries would they be seen in? Thank you for your help

Lloyd

[Glorious NSE]

They are mostly longer than 50', a few in that list I think are 60' or more.

For roadnames BNSF cars are the most obvious suggestion, not hard to find in model form, mix in an occasional BN or ATSF survivor, and copiously sprinkle with leasers (anything from plain grey to multiply patched rustbuckets)
 

[dave1905]

Modern 47xx cu ft grain and fertilizer hoppers are more like 60 ft long.  The older 44xx-46xx cu ft cars are in the 52-58 ft range.  Shorter 2 bay cars are for cement and sand service.

 

Operation is probably a track of cars being pulled out of one of the tracks on the left and spotted at the loader (off your layout to the right), they would load 7 cars going to the left, then shove those 7 into the storage tracks, finish loading the rest of the cut and shove those into the storage track.  Get the next track, pull it down to load and repeat the process.  They wouldn't be loading grain and unloading fertilizer at the same time because there isn't enough room.

 

For modern elevators its not that big, the tracks hold less than half a train of cars.

 

Now if you wanted to back date it to lets say the 1950's or 1960's, you could use MILW engines and all 40 ft long 6 ft door boxcars.  By the time of the BN those would have been pretty much obsolete.

[GWR88]

Thanks very much guys for your help. So far i've found the following cars for sale from a UK supplier:

ACF 5250-Lifeline foods-BFGX-General american-Gulf-Monsanto

ACF pressureaide centerflow-JM Huber-Trinity rail management

ACF 3560-Morton salt-CSX-Corn products-FMC

ACF 5701-Chicago freight car leasing

Can you guys tell me roughly long these cars are (I believe most of them are 55'-60' long) and if they'd fit into the modern scene. Sorry for the questions but when modelling a real location, things just gotta look right! I also found a few BN hoppers on walthers that i was going to somehow get over here. They were https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/176-11064 and https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/176-16003 as i'd also like to operate the layout in the mid 80s to as i having liking for all things green!

Thanks for your help yet again

Lloyd

[Adrian Wintle]

I'm pretty sure the Pressureaide cars are not used for grain service (don't need the pressurized discharge - usualy more for things like plastic pellets into storage silos, or dry powders).

 

The 3560 is probably a bit small for grain service. Morton Salt, Corn Products, and FMC wouldn't be grain cars anyway.

 

The 5701 would be ok, likely better if it had trough hatches rather than round ones.

 

The 5250s are probably ok although BFGX and Gulf will likely be in chemical service (BFGX is BFGoodrich).

 

The Walthers cars would be ok for '80s. You should be able to order them through Walthers for pickup at a UK retailer (or any UK retailer that deals with Walthers should be able to order them for you).

 

The cars will be 5-6" long.

 

Adrian

[GWR88]

Thanks Adrian,

I will probably be buying some ACF 5250s in general american and lifeline foods liveries for the layout then. I'm guessing they're roughly 6" long?

Lloyd

[dave1905]

Pretty much round hatches mean the car hauls something other than grain (plastic pellets, cement, resins, etc).

 

If there is a "tube" centered under the outlet gate of each hopper that is a clue the car is probably not a grain car and most likely a pellet car.

[dave1905]

All of the Atlas Trainman 5250 cars appear to be pellet cars.

[GWR88]

Thanks Dave, i was thinking that after what Adrian said. Due to high customs costs i dont really want to ship directly from america just for four trucks thats why i'm trying to find any at all for sale over here that are suitable!

Lloyd

[Glorious NSE]

This one: https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/176-16003 isn't a grain car either unfortunately.

[Glorious NSE]

Had a dig through Walthers N range, the chicago freightcar leasing 5701 is fine, I'd reccomend (for type, I'm not an N modeller so cannot vouch for quality) the Intermountain ps4750 in stock in two BN schemes. Very common car in BN days, still common under BNSF

[Adrian Wintle]

Intermountain N cars are high quality. Those BN cars would be good.

 

Adrian

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Lloyd,

 

Firstly, glad to see you stuck with the Dark Side.... ;-)

 

Second, and I don't want to rain on the parade, but have you done-the-maths RE a 'nook on a 2' long shelf?

 

recall:

Trad 5:3:3 nook requires 11 "units" along the critical path

Min 3:2:2 nook requires 8 "units" along the critical path.

 

Assuming we are talking 50' hoppers (as noted in the Wyman-linked article earlier as being the "hopper of choice" IIRC),
and a matching SW or GP-length loco, we seem to be pitting at an approx 100mm long "unit length" in N scale.

 

5:3:3 nook = 11 "units" = 1100mm long (just shy of 4')

3:2:2 nook = 8 "units" = 800mm long (32", or a-bit-shorter-than 3')

 

If you use a sectorplate to replace the switch-lead + first-turnout,
(a la "Chicago Fork")

 

you can drop 2 "units" of length from the above

 

9 "units" = 900mm long (around 3')

6 "units" = 600mm long (bang-on 2')

 

...and of course, you can gain a few inches and some visual impact by slewing the long-spur + lead "straight track" diagonally accross the board/shelf...

 

Can't wait to see it... :-)

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[GWR88]

Dear Lloyd,

 

Firstly, glad to see you stuck with the Dark Side.... ;-)

 

Second, and I don't want to rain on the parade, but have you done-the-maths RE a 'nook on a 2' long shelf?

 

recall:

Trad 5:3:3 nook requires 11 "units" along the critical path

Min 3:2:2 nook requires 8 "units" along the critical path.

 

Assuming we are talking 50' hoppers (as noted in the Wyman-linked article earlier as being the "hopper of choice" IIRC),

and a matching SW or GP-length loco, we seem to be pitting at an approx 100mm long "unit length" in N scale.

 

5:3:3 nook = 11 "units" = 1100mm long (just shy of 4')

3:2:2 nook = 8 "units" = 800mm long (32", or a-bit-shorter-than 3')

 

If you use a sectorplate to replace the switch-lead + first-turnout,

(a la "Chicago Fork")

 

you can drop 2 "units" of length from the above

 

9 "units" = 900mm long (around 3')

6 "units" = 600mm long (bang-on 2')

 

...and of course, you can gain a few inches and some visual impact by slewing the long-spur + lead "straight track" diagonally accross the board/shelf...

 

Can't wait to see it... :-)

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

Thanks prof, The pull of the USA was just too much! I did do the maths and i knew it would be difficult but i like a challenge! Im going to extend the board by about a foot so its 3 foot long: 2ft scenic and 1ft of fiddleyard. I've been traversing the morbridge sub on google maps all the way from Aberdeen to the end and the state border. Its been so interesting looking at all the differant yard and loops but i still like selby so i must find a way of compressing it all in. If i have the boards built like i said then i will have three sidings measuring:

50cm (About 19")

42cm (about 16")

42cm (About 16")

So ive got enough space now . All i have to do is get cars for it now so i'll have an order through my gaugemaster over here and hopefully i'll have some soon.

 

The layout topic will start after my other layout Willis yard (Used to be Fiddlers canyon) is almost finished (Should be in about a week or two if my order for buildings arrives on time!).

Thanks guys

Lloyd

[Glorious NSE]

Forgot to say, the other BLMA one (The PS4000) would work for grain, but is unlikely to have lasted into BNSF ownership as it's quite an old car type, might be plausible into the 80s though.

Having another dig this morning, there's some others that could work as modern lease cars if you don't mind doing some work with weathering/patching:

 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/85-67073 is pretty plain to start with - patch it, remove the keystone logo, add COTS stencils (black boxes lower right) and you're heading towards something like this: http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=59786

 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/85-65387 - is another fairly plain grey car - this one is a slightly different type (different builder) but shows how that could work with some patching: http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=33555

 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/751-50001139 - base livery isn't quite the right one (the prototype was Union Equity not Scoular) - but http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=21896 (or at least a similar effect) I think would be acheivable with patches and weathering.

[GWR88]

Thanks glorious NSE,

I'd like to have a go at patching and weathering so they'd be of great help.

Thankls

lloyd

[GWR88]

I've just found out that the yard is regularly used in the off season as a temporary lumber yard and MoW yard so i'm going to use the layout as if it were the off season. However, i shall also use the yard as if it were grain season aswell as i found a UK company selling chicago freight car lrasing hoppers.

Thanks

Lloyd