German Railway Signalling

[NGT6 1315]

Signalling - or lack of it in some places - struck me as very different. I am busy this weekend, but will post a few examples early next week. It was the 1970's so some things will have changed.

Mike

 

Roger that, Mike. I might be able to comment on your examples so as to perhaps explain some things you might have found odd. I do agree that German and British signalling practices are quite different to each other, though!

[rubber duck]

I'd be interested to hear about the differences between the signalling system in Germany and here in Blighty, As I am a full time modeller and part time signaller financed by Network Rail..

[Pacific231G]

I'd be interested to hear about the differences between the signalling system in Germany and here in Blighty, As I am a full time modeller and part time signaller financed by Network Rail..

It's not my area but their stand was opposite ours at Eurotrack last weekend and I noticed that German Railway Society has produced two books in English on German Signalling. The GRS is well worth joining if you've developed a significant interest in German railways. 

Does being a full time modeller financed by NR mean that you build training railways? I've always been rather fascinated by them and most major railways seem to have used them to train operational staff.

[rubber duck]

Hi Pacific 231G, sorry to mislead you with my comment, ( trying to be a smart arse )   I'm a signaller with NR, which affords me time between trains to practice my modelling skills. Google Shirebrook Junction and you'll see where all the magic happens..

[Pacific231G]

Hi Pacific 231G, sorry to mislead you with my comment, ( trying to be a smart arse )   I'm a signaller with NR, which affords me time between trains to practice my modelling skills. Google Shirebrook Junction and you'll see where all the magic happens..

Not at all - and training railways are still a fascinating aspect of modelling.

I know very little about German signalling but in general the fundamental philosophical difference between British Isles and mainland European practice seems to have been that there the roles of station master and signaller tended to be far more integrated so, in France for example, though major stations did have separate (but often not permanently staffed) signal boxes, smaller stations and even junctions often had the block instruments in the bureau of the Chef du Gare or under a canopy on the main platform. I've seen similar practice in Austria and if you've ever watched the 1966 Czech film "Closely Observed Trains" you see much the same sort of operation.  I have a sense that German practice involved rather more signal boxes but others here will know all about that.

[rubber duck]

So, All I have to do is become fluent in German, then get a job as a Signaller in the Rhine valley somewhere, How hard can it be.....

[byron]

I'm afraid that's not entirely accurate David: on the Continent there's indeed a distinct difference between stationmaster and signaller. Not unlike the UK, actually. However, and that may contradict UK practices (and probably reason why UK branchlines are so expensive ) is that on less frequented lines the role of both can be performed by a single man. On larger stations, each function usually has its own allocated staff.

 

In all, the principles of signalling in- and outside the UK remain the same: a train is only allowed to enter a fixed section of track when that section (block) is clear, or if the driver has been notified that it isn't. The differences between various countries in their signals is the way this message is relayed to the driver: how the signal looks, what the meaning is of its aspects and what resulting action is expected from the driver.

On some of the lesser used lines, fixed signals (as we know them) may not exist. They are replaced by a trapeze shaped sign - German signal Ne1. Specific trains have to stop and await instruction, often a hand signal. The German railway relies on the "Buchfahrplan" or working timetable far more than we do in the UK. Each loco carries a set that applies to the routes it is diagrammed over. The "Buchfahrplan" gives the driver the required information as wether to stop or not. As I said in an earlier post, to our eyes a little lax!

A good book for those with a little knowledge of the language the " Taschenbuch der Eisenbahn" by Horst J. Obermayer (ISBN 3-440-04248-0 can be a great help (not just signalling, but is a general explanation of how German railways are operated).

 

Mike

[NGT6 1315]

The German railway relies on the "Buchfahrplan" or working timetable far more than we do in the UK. 

 

Good point there: This is how a German Buchfahrplan looks…

 

 

 

 

And here's how you read it:

 

Column 1: Gross kilometre posts

Column 2: Speed limit in kilometres per hour

Column 3a: Names of stations, key facilities and signal designations

Column 3b: Kilometre marks for stations and signal locations

Columns 4 / 5: Departure times

 

Asig = exit signal

Esig = entry signal

Zsig = intermediate signal

Evsig = entry distant signal

Avsig = exit distant signal

Zvsig = intermediate distant signal

Sbk = self-blocking signal

 

The triangle symbol following any of the distant signal markers indicates a shortened distance between the distant signal and the main signal it is related to.

 

Indications like "E 50", "Z 60" or "A 60" indicate that a main signal (entry, intermediate or exit) may be passed at the speed indicated behind the letter rather than the default 40 kph when showing a "proceed limited" aspect.

 

In locations where different speed limits, signal designations or kilometre marks apply to regular and wrong track, the values applying to the wrong track are set in chevrons.

 

The paper-printed variant is read from top to bottom whereas the electronic variant now available on pretty much all contemporary motive power – called "EBuLa" – scrolls from bottom to top.

 

 

The above example depicts the integrated variant of route properties and departure times. There is, however, a second format where route properties are provided in one booklet called the "Geschwindigkeitsheft" and departure times for any trains adhering to the related Geschwindigkeitsheft are provided in the "Fahrzeitenheft." The electronic variant generally provides the integrated format.

 

 

 

***

 

Maybe we should have those postings not directly related to the original question of AC and DC model power supply split off into a separate thread?

[NGT6 1315]

On some of the lesser used lines, fixed signals (as we know them) may not exist. They are replaced by a trapeze shaped sign - German signal Ne1.

To expand on this example: The Ne 1 sign is typical for secondary lines operated in what is called Zugleitbetrieb. This is somewhat similar to the American train order practice in that trains will normally proceed from one station (called "Zuglaufstelle" in this context) to the next scheduled to serve as a stop or passing point. Once arrived, the driver or (if present) guard will have to obtain permission from the route dispatcher (called "Zugleiter" in this context) for the next section. The route dispatcher therefore has to have a directory of all trains scheduled to work the route on a given day in order to be able to supervise train passes at the stations en route.

 

The Ne 1 board, in the context of Zugleitbetrieb, serves to mark the boundary between open line and station limits, and essentially replaces the semaphore or daylight signal which would ordinarily have that function.

 

There actually are two variants of Zugleitbetrieb today - non-signalled according to Regulation 436 (which is what I described in the first two paragraphs) and signalled according to Regulation 437. In the latter variant, the line is, in fact, equipped with signals, and either the guard or the route dispatcher (or both) can set routes through equipment installed at the various Zuglaufstellen.

 

Routes operated in Zugleitbetrieb will often be equipped with spring-loaded points, too.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi All,

At request and seemingly with general consent, I have split this discussion on German railway signalling from the "ac/dc?" topic. My first 'admin' task!

I certainly think it's worthwhile as I for one, know very little about German signalling practices.

Cheers,

John.

[NGT6 1315]

Oops, forgot to mention two details regarding Buchfahrpläne. –

 

The "Mbr 129 P" comment in the header for the example I posted indicates the minimum braking force – 129% and brake setting "P" in this case – required for the indicated speeds and travel times. If, for whatever reason, the available braking force is lower or the required brake setting unavailable, speeds will have to be reduced in order to still allow for safe braking distances. Such deviations must be made known to the dispatcher, who will then have to provide modified operating parameters to the driver.

 

One term you might frequently hear in relation to Buchfahrpläne is what is called "anschließender Weichenbereich," or, more accurately, "Ende des anschließenden Weichenbereichs," which could be roughly interpreted as the speed change threshold following any set of points. In the electronic Buchfahrplan in particular, this location is now marked with the Yen symbol to make it easier for the driver to determine when they may accelerate.

[Pacific231G]

I'm afraid that's not entirely accurate David: on the Continent there's indeed a distinct difference between stationmaster and signaller. Not unlike the UK, actually. However, and that may contradict UK practices (and probably reason why UK branchlines are so expensive ) is that on less frequented lines the role of both can be performed by a single man. On larger stations, each function usually has its own allocated staff.

 

 

I'm afraid it's entirely accurate, or at least it was in traditional operating practice!! This is a discussion of German signalling where practice may have been different from other parts of mainland Europe but in France, and I believe in other countries as well, there was a fundamental difference. Clearly there were separately manned signal boxes at important stations, major junctions and on the busiest lines around major cities but elsewhere, which included a majority of stations, responsibility for the safe passage of trains rested with the Chef de Gare. This was not a matter of taking on the additional responsibilities of the signaller on top of their normal role as with say a British porter-signalman but was at the core of that role. 

 

The SNCF's 1958 regulation states "In each poste, the operation of signals, points and other "installations de sécurité" is entrusted, according to the level of traffic, either to specialist signallers (aiguilleurs spécialisés), or to the stationmaster (Chef de gare) or to staff designated by him."  In other words the role that in Britain is almost invariably carried out by dedicated signallers is,  where appropriate, part of the overall role of the stationmaster not a separate function (A poste can be anything from a large signalbox to the block post in or just outside the stationmaster's office or even a ground frame)   

 

in the same regulations the term aiguilleur, normally translated as signaller, actually referred to anyone responsible for operating points and signals and, apart from station masters and their deputies, that could even include the guard of a goods train operating a local poste to access a private siding and setting the protection signals appropriately.

There seems to be no specific term with quite the same meaning as a British "signalman" but it does say that "in some postes the aiguilleur may be authorised to fulfil all or part of the functions given by these instructions as the responsibility of the chef de gare. "

 

Nowadays,  with centralised control centres and automatic block systems, most trains ARE controlled by  specialised signalling staff but when trains were (and in some cases still are) passed between locally operated  block posts, the vast majority of these, even on main lines, were the direct responsibility of the station master (It used to be a familiar sight at Noyelles, the junction for the Baie de Somme railway, on the Paris-Calais main line to see the chef emerge from his office to operate the Lartigue block semaphores which were controlled by handles actually on the signal post) 

It was also the case that many of the manouevers that, on running lines in Britain would be fully controlled by signals operated from a signal box were, in France and elsewhere, carried out under the authority of hand signals given by the station master or a designated member of the station staff once the running lines were appropriately protected by signals so you generally didn't have the equivalent of purely shunting signals such as ground disks.

 

I think these differences do reflect the different patterns of development of railways in countries with different traditions and different levels of traffic, which is what makes them so  interesting to explore a little deeper. both French, and I suspect German signalling, started from British practice - the earliest French signal was the GWR disk and crossbar- but developed in somewhat different directions. I think Britain with very busy lines often requiring far more block posts than stations developed from the policeman (bobby) out on the line regulating trains by time to the permanent signalbox staffed by dedicated signallers rather separate from station staff. Elsewhere trains were rather less frequent than stations so these combined the functions of control points and access by customers. On many lines in N. America where trains were far less frequent than stations the last thing you wanted was operational staff twiddling their thumbs all day just to clear a couple of trains through so responsibility was given to the crew to follow train orders issued and modified by a central despatcher.

 

In all, the principles of signalling in- and outside the UK remain the same: a train is only allowed to enter a fixed section of track when that section (block) is clear, or if the driver has been notified that it isn't. The differences between various countries in their signals is the way this message is relayed to the driver: how the signal looks, what the meaning is of its aspects and what resulting action is expected from the driver.

Up to a point that's true but British signalling is based very much on granting positive permission to occupy a particular piece of track whereas French practice tends to separate the functions of block separation, protection against conflicting moves, and controlling speed. Generally this means more different types of signal- there are five different stop signals with rather different meanings and two of them can be passed when closed- but often far fewer of them. Also,in Britain, far more movements have traditionally been fully signalled. Elsewhere the message is often relayed to the driver not by a permanent signal (some French stations with passenger services have block instruments- nowadays often a specialised computer- but no operating signals at all) but by a person usually accompanied by a hand signal.

 

Of course in Alsace-Lorraine you get a subtle blend of both German and French practice and I suspect rather more signalboxes.

[Pacific231G]

I've just found a very useful page on the principles behind German signalling by Prof. Dr. Joern Pachl written in very clear English.

 

http://www.joernpachl.de/German_principles.htm

and this site that gives the signal indications

 

www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/index.htm

 

I've not yet quite got my head round the difference between Train directors (Fahrdienstleiter)and Point operators (Weichenwärter) and the two types of signalbox but was interested in this comment.

 

"In Southern and South-Eastern Germany, and in the states of the former Empire of Austria-Hungary,the train director was often completely relieved from operating points and signals. The working place of the train director was not a signal box but an office in the station building where the train director was also performing the work of a station master." That does tie in with what I had observed myself in Austria and in the Czech film "Closely Observed Trains" but it does seem that in the rest of Germany separate signalboxes were, as in Britain though working on somewhat different principles, the norm.

 

Interestingly the description of "Block Working without a Line Block System" seems very similar (apart from the intermediate block) to the French Cantonnement Telephonique (telephone block working) though in France that has now been superceded by CAPI where the formal exchanges by telephone are replaced by pre-defined messages passed between specially adapted PCs that give a visual indication of the state of play rather like non-track circuited block instruments.

[The Stationmaster]

We seem to have leapt in way beyond the basic differences - not entirely irrelvant but let's get the basics of signalling sorted.

 

The British system of semaphore and subsequently colour light signals is based on a principle of route signalling, i.e the signals, apart from their block signalling related purpose of train separation convey information to a Driver about the route which his train will follow at a divergence.  In Germany (and France the basic principe - again apart from the block signalling role of train separation - is to indicate to the Driver the speed at which his train may travel (albeit that speed might vary for other reasons) but the signals tell him whether he is going 'fast' route or restricted speed route - but not which route his train will take.

 

Thus in understanding the indications of lineside signals you start from two very different principles which have reflected in the form and arrangement of semaphore signals and the development from there of colour light signals.  But part of the key to understanding them in any country in Europe, or elsewhere in the world where the signalling draws on European principles is to first ascertain which of those two principles the signalling system is based on - get that idea in your head and the next step, of actually understanding the indications given by lineside signals, becomes a bit easier, even if it is a triple green aspect in Sweden.

 

The French of course are a bit different from both the other basic principles and they tended over the years to plough a furrow which incorporates bits of both principles.  Only one other country in Europe follows that route (according to French texts on the subject) and that is Spain) all the other countries follow either the German 'speed' principle or teh British 'route indicating principle.

 

What is basic to all systems on most passenger lines in Europe (except at some stations) is that there is a form of train separation based on distance, the principle of the block section, achieved by various means and operated, according to country and location, by different grades.  Similarly the basic feature of all the single line systems is one of separation by distance plus, obviously, a further separation of trains heading in opposite directions.  Most single line systems over teh years have employed some kind of fixed signals - even if they are only noticebboards - but this has gradually changed over the past few decades as more modern and technologically based system have come in to convey information/instructions to the Driver.

[NGT6 1315]

Mike, just to follow up on your explanations for a bit…

 

While it is true that the German signalling system is speed based, you can, as a driver, but draw at least some degree of information about the route you will be going from the aspects shown. If, for example, you're approaching a station with one through track and one or more loops, and are given a proceed limited approach (e.g. Hp 2 under the classic West German H/V system), you can reasonably expect to have been given a diverging route as points usually require a more or less significant speed reduction (naturally).

 

Or, in locations where a large number of possible routes – especially when they're all to different destinations – can be set or where disambiguation between routes might be called for out of other reasons, you might also see the relevant main signals outfitted with route indicators (designated Zs 2)…

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Zs2.svg

 

…which can display a variety of letters referring to the next major location on the route you have been given. This, of course, is to add an additional safeguard against false routing as the driver can – fundamentally – ascertain they have been given the correct route for their service.

[The Stationmaster]

The Weichenwärter is the signaller who physically moves the points, the Fahrdienstleiter is his boss

 

@Mike: countries can change! The Dutch classic semaphore system was 'direction' based, the 1946 and current 1954 systems where/are 'speed' based. Although I know little of French signalling (no interest) I do know that the LVG cab-signalling is indeed speed based. IMO it's a precursor to ERTMS/ETCS, with a target-speed and -distance.

Oddly the situation with the Weichenwarter is very similar to that on the Taff Vale Railway in Wales where at the large 'boxes the lever frame was worked by pointsmen (= aiguilleur in French or - just for you - wisselwachter in Dutch according to the official UIC translation; the German equivalent, as with English, has several different names).  The TVR Pointsmen worked under the direction of a Signalman and he operated the block instruments and told the Pointsmen which routes to set.  I think that arrangement was unique in mainland British signal operating (unless someone knows different),  incidentally the principle of the Stationmaster being in charge of block signalling (but not directly operating points & signals) was at one time quite common in Britain but began to change following the Abermule collision in 1921.

 

In modern European systems there have been changes from the original principles used by the country - for example Belgian semaphore signalling is basically route based but their colour light practice in some circumstances includes speed indications as well as route indication or instead of route indication (!) and, like Holand, Italy moved more towards a speed based system when it introduced colour light signalling.  One feature of quite a number of mainland European colour light signalling methods is that they do actually show a speed as part of the signal aspect or they show a symbol which equates to a speed.

 

SNCF's TVM system of course took speed signalling to its ultimate by giving the Driver an indication of the maximum permissible (or a target) speed in advance of the next repere (marker board) and ERTMS includes a similar feature although it is very different from TVM in its overall principles and capability.

[Pacific231G]

The Weichenwärter is the signaller who physically moves the points, the Fahrdienstleiter is his boss

Though according to Prof.Pachl the Fahrdienstleiter might also be pulling levers. " Shunting is entirely in charge of the point operators. Every point operator (Weichenwärter) controls the shunting movements in the district of the own signal box. However, before authorising a shunting movement to enter a main track, the point operator has to ask the train director (Fahrdienstleiter) to avoid conflicts with train movements. If the train director operates points in the command box, the train director is also a point operator for the control district of that signal box." That makes sense for situations where a station was too long to be operated by a single frame but traffic wasn't heavy enough to require both a train director and point operators in the command box.

 

I wonder if there was any equivalent to the situation that I believe existed at some Scottish (and English?) single track stations where the length (and the need to issue tokens) required a box at each end but the traffic didn't warrant two signallers so one signaller had a bike to get quickly between his two boxes.

[byron]

Though according to Prof.Pachl the Fahrdienstleiter might also be pulling levers. " Shunting is entirely in charge of the point operators. Every point operator (Weichenwärter) controls the shunting movements in the district of the own signal box. However, before authorising a shunting movement to enter a main track, the point operator has to ask the train director (Fahrdienstleiter) to avoid conflicts with train movements. If the train director operates points in the command box, the train director is also a point operator for the control district of that signal box." That makes sense for situations where a station was too long to be operated by a single frame but traffic wasn't heavy enough to require both a train director and point operators in the command box.

 

I wonder if there was any equivalent to the situation that I believe existed at some Scottish (and English?) single track stations where the length (and the need to issue tokens) required a box at each end but the traffic didn't warrant two signallers so one signaller had a bike to get quickly between his two boxes.

The "Fahrdienstleiter" translates to our Regulator. His duties are also very much the same. One Fahrdienstleiter can have control of several signal boxes. German titles on the railway (as in all walks of life) can be historic, and have only a passing bearing to present day duties. To really understand the operating practices of any railway outside the UK, it is in my opinion better to forget UK rules and not try to compare. The only real similarity is to ensure the safe operation of the railway.

My knowledge of German practice is only valid from 1965 to 1985 - and things have really changed since then.

 

Mike

[Pacific231G]

To really understand the operating practices of any railway outside the UK, it is in my opinion better to forget UK rules and not try to compare. The only real similarity is to ensure the safe operation of the railway.

 

Mike

I tend to agree. I've seen many attempts to describe French signalling getting completely bogged down in trying to map their signalling onto British practice which it simply doesn't; trying, for example to liken the various stop signals (five, each with a different meaning) to British home signals. I do though find it interesting to compare how nationals systems developed very differently from the same (often British)roots.

[NGT6 1315]

To continue with the topic of inherent limitations to any attempts at comparing different signalling practices, I might also point out that the definitions for a "station" can, in effect, be quite dissimilar across countries. As you can also read up on Mr Pachl's excellent site, in German practice, a station is generally characterised by the presence of points and home signals, and is the only type of location where shunting movements may take place. Speaking of these, while it is correct that under German regulations, shunting movements are restricted to a maximum speed of 25 kph, it is possible for the signaller to permit a speed of 40 kph, provided they can ensure a clear shunting route from start to end and inform the driver and/or shunter of this "freier Fahrweg."

[The Stationmaster]

To continue with the topic of inherent limitations to any attempts at comparing different signalling practices, I might also point out that the definitions for a "station" can, in effect, be quite dissimilar across countries. As you can also read up on Mr Pachl's excellent site, in German practice, a station is generally characterised by the presence of points and home signals, and is the only type of location where shunting movements may take place. Speaking of these, while it is correct that under German regulations, shunting movements are restricted to a maximum speed of 25 kph, it is possible for the signaller to permit a speed of 40 kph, provided they can ensure a clear shunting route from start to end and inform the driver and/or shunter of this "freier Fahrweg."

Interesting that Dom - so effectively it sounds as if the German definition of a station is roughly comparable (at least in some respects) with the British definition of Station Limits and in fact looking at Mr Pachl's site it is exactly that (although there is a somewhat odd reference to Advanced Starting Signals in British practice by saying they don't exist in German practice).

[NGT6 1315]

Interesting that you should mention the Hp 00 aspect, DM. The idea behind this aspect (as you may know) was that the left of the two red lights was intended to be the "Danger" aspect for train movements, and the other light to be valid only for shunting movements. However, this practice was soon changed to only one red light remaining, and for this light to stay lit for signalling "Stop" to train movements while Sh 1 would be signalled simultaneously with the usual two white lights.

[NGT6 1315]

Interesting that Dom - so effectively it sounds as if the German definition of a station is roughly comparable (at least in some respects) with the British definition of Station Limits and in fact looking at Mr Pachl's site it is exactly that (although there is a somewhat odd reference to Advanced Starting Signals in British practice by saying they don't exist in German practice).

I didn't seem to be able to find an example for these Advanced Starter Signals you mentioned, Mike. Could you perhaps just quickly brief me/us on these? It sounds like they're - with all caveats - broadly comparable in function to the German Zp 9 signal.

 

(This reminds me of a ride-along with a guard I know some years ago, on a glorious summer day through the diesel country north of Frankfurt... Happy days.)

[The Stationmaster]

I didn't seem to be able to find an example for these Advanced Starter Signals you mentioned, Mike. Could you perhaps just quickly brief me/us on these? It sounds like they're - with all caveats - broadly comparable in function to the German Zp 9 signal.

 

(This reminds me of a ride-along with a guard I know some years ago, on a glorious summer day through the diesel country north of Frankfurt... Happy days.)

Dom - in some respects I don't think you will.  British signal naming can be a rather confusing subject (and that's just to the British!) so I think it is always best to reduce it to some modern terminology and start with the basics.

 

As in many other countries there is, in semaphore signalling, something called a block section and it extends from the most advanced stop signal at the signalbox at the rear end of the section (i.e. where a train enters that section) to the rearmost (= the first) stop signal at the signalbox at the advance end of the section (i.e where the train leaves the section).  In modern nomenclature the signal which guards the entrance to the section is called the Section Signal and the first stop signal encountered at the next signalbox is called the Home Signal.

 

The section of line between the Home Signal and the Section Signal at a signalbox is called Station Limits but there is no need for a station to be present.  Within Station Limits certain types of movement, mainly relating usually to shunting, can take place which are prohibited in a block section (in normal working).

 

Just to confuse us all the various railway companies and BR Regions had naming principles for their stop signals thus sometimes the first stop signal would be called an Outer Home Signal and then depending on the number of stop signals between them, and their position in relation to the signalbox, a whole host of names could be given to those other signals.  And by not using the term Section Signal the Rules & Regulations had to be exaggerated to also include the term Advanced Starting Signal.  This could have been taken to ridiculous lengths hence the use of the simpler term Section Signal - for example at one of my past 'boxes on the Up Line there was a Home Signal, a Starting Signal, an Intermediate Advanced Starting Signal, and an outer Advanced Starting Signal - the latter being the Section Signal.

 

So for British comparisons - if needed - stick to the simple terms Home Signal and Section Signal, I hope that makes sense.

[FelixM]

Jörn Pachl has a very interesting tweet: https://twitter.com/rail_operator

He just posted 2 pics the other week with British-German signalling content: https://twitter.com/rail_operator/status/516899642458767360 and https://twitter.com/rail_operator/status/519075587319943168

 

Felix