Fragmentised scrap steel

[Pennine MC]

As it says really Popular by the '80s, but about when did it become reasonably widespread?

 

I know it comes mainly from scrap cars and I know it feeds electric arc furnaces, so the usage of the latter particularly might give some clues. I have done some Googling in the past and found one firm (can't find it again) that claimed to be the first in Europe, in 1975; but as there are some 16 tonners chalked up for 'FRAG' on Paul Bartlett's site in late '75, I'm inclined to think its use might have started a bit before that.

 

As ever, all (on topic) replies appreciated

[Fat Controller]

As it says really Popular by the '80s, but about when did it become reasonably widespread?

 

I know it comes mainly from scrap cars and I know it feeds electric arc furnaces, so the usage of the latter particularly might give some clues. I have done some Googling in the past and found one firm (can't find it again) that claimed to be the first in Europe, in 1975; but as there are some 16 tonners chalked up for 'FRAG' on Paul Bartlett's site in late '75, I'm inclined to think its use might have started a bit before that.

 

As ever, all (on topic) replies appreciated

Fred Mc Guinness's scrapyard, near Longport yard in Stoke got a fragmentiser in the late 1970s- it was newsworthy enough to be on both the front page of the Sentinel and on local TV news. Mind you, many of the cars in the yard at the time could have been fragmented with a lump hammer.

There was a programme on TV recently (National Geographic, I think) about the fragmentiser at Sims Metals in Newport Dock, which is apparently one of the biggest in the country- an impressive bit of kit, though with quite a lot of human assistance to sort out all the non-ferrous material before it's shipped.

[Bernard Lamb]

It depends to some extent on what you mean by fragmentised. I would imagine that the pukka machine must have been introduced to satisfy a demand that existed prior to that point. Various companies in the Luton area were chopping their scrap thin steel sheet into very small pieces for smelting several years before 1975. Now this might not technically be fragmentised but it satisfied the requirements of the steel works. It was viable on a small to medium scale. A lot of it went by road to the Brimsdown area near Enfield, North London and by rail from near there. The material that was removed when punching holes in steel was also sort after. I still have a bag of round piercings about 10x3mm from this period that I use for weighting wagons.

Bernard

[Pennine MC]

Thanks chaps

 

It depends to some extent on what you mean by fragmentised. I would imagine that the pukka machine must have been introduced to satisfy a demand that existed prior to that point. Various companies in the Luton area were chopping their scrap thin steel sheet into very small pieces for smelting several years before 1975. Now this might not technically be fragmentised but it satisfied the requirements of the steel works.

 

I suppose the answer there is 'I dont know what I mean' I dont think there's much difference in practical terms between fragmentised and shredded, I suppose it was the chalking on the wagon side that led me to use the former term

[Bernard Lamb]

Thanks chaps

 

 

 

I suppose the answer there is 'I dont know what I mean' I dont think there's much difference in practical terms between fragmentised and shredded, I suppose it was the chalking on the wagon side that led me to use the former term

 

 

You know exactly what you mean Ian. We can all get confused by technical terms. By giving a bit of background from my working experience I was reckoning that it might just jog some ones mmemory. It still doesn't help in fixing a start date for marking wagons.

Bernard

[Fat Controller]

You know exactly what you mean Ian. We can all get confused by technical terms. By giving a bit of background from my working experience I was reckoning that it might just jog some ones mmemory. It still doesn't help in fixing a start date for marking wagons.

Bernard

Any chance of a link to the photo itself? There's about 300 photos of 16t minerals on Paul's site! It could be that the marking isn't to do with 'fragmented' steel, but some arcane reference to a type of coal- there's one marked 'FREN', whose meaning is probably only known to the person who wrote it.

Shredded steel as Bernard describes it would often be baled before being railed- light shredded scrap was a pain because it was prone to being dislodged, and you couldn't get much into a wagon. Once it was baled, you could get 22t into a 16 tonner and 30t into a 21 tonner- I spent a few months auditing lading bills for scrap at a BSC plant in the early-mid 1970s, and was astounded to see how many wagons were seriously overloaded.

'Fragmented' scrap is in pieces not much bigger than one's fist- the incoming metal, which could be an entire car body, or one that's been compressed into a bale, passes through a series of rollers and hammers which pummel it into small pieces. You can see why a car boot is sometimes used as a last resting place by certain elements of the criminal fraternity- there wouldn't be much for a pathologist to work with, even if somone noticed there was a body.

[Pennine MC]

You can see why a car boot is sometimes used as a last resting place by certain elements of the criminal fraternity- there wouldn't be much for a pathologist to work with, even if somone noticed there was a body.

 

Cheery sorta cove, aintcha

 

Any chance of a link to the photo itself? There's about 300 photos of 16t minerals on Paul's site! It could be that the marking isn't to do with 'fragmented' steel, but some arcane reference to a type of coal- ...

 

Fair point, even I dont know every shot in those galleries

 

My link

My link

 

There's a couple, I've a feeling there are one or two more. I think the location (for Corby) and the instruction 'CLEAN OUT' are strong circumstantial evidence of scrap usage

[Bernard Lamb]

The message CLEAN OUT could have various meanings.

Does it mean clean out any remains of steel scrap before using for coal?

Or does it mean clean out coal or anything else before using for frag steel or indeed any other load?

Clean scrap steel obtained a significantly higher price than contaminated material.

It's a pity there isn't a code book to explain these markings.

Bernard

[Pennine MC]

The message CLEAN OUT could have various meanings.

Does it mean clean out any remains of steel scrap before using for coal?

Or does it mean clean out coal or anything else before using for frag steel or indeed any other load?

 

Well either way, scrap comes into the equation

 

It's a pity there isn't a code book to explain these markings.

 

 

Thinking of some of the things that get chalked on wagons, I dunno Bernard. A long time ago I posted a pic of a tanker at Mallaig marked up 'No1 BUFFER F*CKED'

[Jenny Emily]

Many years ago I did a job for a haulage company taking parts from the Alstom works in Preston down to several depots in London and Birmingham. One of these was Willesdon, and I parked the lorry in the carpark for the night. In the morning I had my breakfast whilst watching a huge machine in a scrap yard on the opposite side of the tracks shredding cars into what looked like silver coal. The cars had already been crushed slightly flatter (essentially cruching the roofline flat) but I noticed one sorry looking Ford Cortina which still had its sidelights on, despite having been crushed down to bonnet height and was well battered to boot. Strange, as I thought scrappies salvaged stuff like that before vehicles go for final crushing. Given how long it must have been suppllying power to the sidelights, it would have been a battery worth having too.

[Pennine MC]

 

... I've a feeling there are one or two more.

 

Here's one