Avonside Trojan Cut-n-Shut

[Chris Chewter]

I'm not too sure what came first, looking at the actual Trojan locomotive or a suggestion that a Trojan RTR model would never exist as the key components are available to cut together, but its readily apparent that Didcots Avonside saddle tank does look like a Dapol Pug with a Hornby Smokey Joe body, spliced down in size.

 

I thought I'd check to see whether it had been done before.  A quick google search threw up some fuzzy build photographs of a past attempt, but nothing detailed or conclusive.  So I decided to give it a try. After all, it would hopefully be a nice easy project to run on the side.

 

Before I start, first off, a quick disclaimer.  If you model beautiful scale representations of actual locos, I suggest you don't read any further!  One thing came apparent is that I was not in a position to splice together a totally accurate model, and compromises would need to be made.  It would be a scale representation of Trojan.  If a scale model is what you're after, then I suggest the CSP kit is the way you should go.

 

The ingredients!

1.   A Hornby or Dapol Pug if you want it motorised, or a Dapol kit for a static model.

2.   A Hornby "smokey joe" style LMS pug donor body with brass safety valves and whistle.

3.   A 57xx pannier donor body with handrails.

4.   Some buffers, as the Hornby pug has dumb buffers which need removal.

5.   Name plates. These came from Narrow Planet, as they are not available off the shelf. http://narrowplanet.co.uk/

 

Reference sources:  

 

Apart from an obligatory visit to Didcot if you can, the following website provides some excellent line drawings, which if printed off, allows you to check whether everything is in proportion: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/48/Trojan.htm

 

The Compromises:

 

The build is not without compromises.  I didn't model the front buffer beam to the correct shape and the ash slot at the front of the locomotive.  Trojan has a riveted tank, where as Smokey Joes is a smooth moulding.  The cab roof is too short, the rear sheet to the cab is wrong, and the reverser linkage moulded on the Pug chassis is on the wrong side.  The motor is very visible from the back, and there are a lot of other additional boxes and lubricator pipes that could be added if I had the time or inclination.  The valve gear on the Hornby Pug has a protector, that needs to be removed. I left mine on which is also unprototypical. I also lost the Smokey Joe whistle, so the incorrect 57xx whistles will have to do until I can find a replacement.  Some of these things I could have corrected, but the model was in danger of becoming a shelf queen, so I had to finish it off.

 

I wanted to model Trojan how she exists at Didcot currently.  However it's not possible to affix a 4mm "Great Western" transfer to the tender tank, as its too long.  I don't know whether this is because the saddle tank has been compromised in length by the motor, or if its just because Trojan needs smaller decals, but  the 4mm Fox transfers I have simply do not fit!

 

Was it worth it?

 

I think so, but I would say that as i invested lots of time into the model.  Anyway, I have a Trojan ready to shunt on my layout when the mood takes me  It looks the part, and runs nicely.  There is also space above the weight for a TCS M1 micro decoder, so its DCC fitted!

 

Conclusion:

 

Can Trojan be spliced?  Yes but with compromises.  But is the model for you? If you want rivets and a scale miniature, grab a CSP kit.  But if you are happy with the compromises or don't want burnt fingers from a metal kit, a cut-n-splice project could be for you!

 

The information provided is intended to be a legacy to allow fellow modellers to improve on the Trojan Cut-n-Shut.

[Spitfire2865]

Some better photos of the final loco would be very nice. Even if its not a perfect representation of Trojan, its still A lovely little industrial.

[LNWR18901910]

I'm not too sure what came first, looking at the actual Trojan locomotive or a suggestion that a Trojan RTR model would never exist as the key components are available to cut together, but its readily apparent that Didcots Avonside saddle tank does look like a Dapol Pug with a Hornby Smokey Joe body, spliced down in size.

 

I thought I'd check to see whether it had been done before.  A quick google search threw up some fuzzy build photographs of a past attempt, but nothing detailed or conclusive.  So I decided to give it a try. After all, it would hopefully be a nice easy project to run on the side.

 

Before I start, first off, a quick disclaimer.  If you model beautiful scale representations of actual locos, I suggest you don't read any further!  One thing came apparent is that I was not in a position to splice together a totally accurate model, and compromises would need to be made.  It would be a scale representation of Trojan.  If a scale model is what you're after, then I suggest the CSP kit is the way you should go.

 

The ingredients!

1.   A Hornby or Dapol Pug if you want it motorised, or a Dapol kit for a static model.

2.   A Hornby "smokey joe" style LMS pug donor body with brass safety valves and whistle.

3.   A 57xx pannier donor body with handrails.

4.   Some buffers, as the Hornby pug has dumb buffers which need removal.

5.   Name plates. These came from Narrow Planet, as they are not available off the shelf. http://narrowplanet.co.uk/

 

Reference sources:  

 

Apart from an obligatory visit to Didcot if you can, the following website provides some excellent line drawings, which if printed off, allows you to check whether everything is in proportion: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/48/Trojan.htm

 

The Compromises:

 

The build is not without compromises.  I didn't model the front buffer beam to the correct shape and the ash slot at the front of the locomotive.  Trojan has a riveted tank, where as Smokey Joes is a smooth moulding.  The cab roof is too short, the rear sheet to the cab is wrong, and the reverser linkage moulded on the Pug chassis is on the wrong side.  The motor is very visible from the back, and there are a lot of other additional boxes and lubricator pipes that could be added if I had the time or inclination.  The valve gear on the Hornby Pug has a protector, that needs to be removed. I left mine on which is also unprototypical. I also lost the Smokey Joe whistle, so the incorrect 57xx whistles will have to do until I can find a replacement.  Some of these things I could have corrected, but the model was in danger of becoming a shelf queen, so I had to finish it off.

 

I wanted to model Trojan how she exists at Didcot currently.  However it's not possible to affix a 4mm "Great Western" transfer to the tender tank, as its too long.  I don't know whether this is because the saddle tank has been compromised in length by the motor, or if its just because Trojan needs smaller decals, but  the 4mm Fox transfers I have simply do not fit!

 

Was it worth it?

 

I think so, but I would say that as i invested lots of time into the model.  Anyway, I have a Trojan ready to shunt on my layout when the mood takes me  It looks the part, and runs nicely.  There is also space above the weight for a TCS M1 micro decoder, so its DCC fitted!

 

Conclusion:

 

Can Trojan be spliced?  Yes but with compromises.  But is the model for you? If you want rivets and a scale miniature, grab a CSP kit.  But if you are happy with the compromises or don't want burnt fingers from a metal kit, a cut-n-splice project could be for you!

 

The information provided is intended to be a legacy to allow fellow modellers to improve on the Trojan Cut-n-Shut.

Nice work! Suppose you stuck a coal bunker on the back and it resembled Percy in his RWS form?

[Chris Chewter]

I'm really happy about the latest flurry of interest in little Trojan.  I've been meaning to take it out of its box and photograph it again to see if its really as bad as my memory serves (Hence my reluctance to take any better photos) However I was surprised when I slid it out of its box, and I didn't think it looked too bad!

 

 

 

 

And the real thing for comparison:

 

 

If I get the time, I need to think about replacing the door dart.  You'll also notice that the handrails and nameplates are wrong, but given that the cab roof is also too short, I decided that life was too short and I had other projects I wanted to get on with!  There's a bit of fiddling and detailing that this wee beastie could benefit from, if I feel so inclined.

 

On another matter, I have been meaning to revive this thread because of a recent discovery:

 

 

Yes, you too could own your own 3D printed Trojan, and hopefully soon, so will I.  I've just placed an order for one, as I'm fascinated to see how the two compare.  Once its arrived from the Netherlands where Shapeways are based, I'll post an update.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Captainalbino

[LNWR18901910]

I'm really happy about the latest flurry of interest in little Trojan.  I've been meaning to take it out of its box and photograph it again to see if its really as bad as my memory serves (Hence my reluctance to take any better photos) However I was surprised when I slid it out of its box, and I didn't think it looked too bad!

 

Trojan 4.JPG

 

Trojan 5.JPG

 

Trojan 6.JPG

 

And the real thing for comparison:

 

The Real Trojan.JPG

 

If I get the time, I need to think about replacing the door dart.  You'll also notice that the handrails and nameplates are wrong, but given that the cab roof is also too short, I decided that life was too short and I had other projects I wanted to get on with!  There's a bit of fiddling and detailing that this wee beastie could benefit from, if I feel so inclined.

 

On another matter, I have been meaning to revive this thread because of a recent discovery:

 

Shapeways Trojan.JPG

 

Yes, you too could own your own 3D printed Trojan, and hopefully soon, so will I.  I've just placed an order for one, as I'm fascinated to see how the two compare.  Once its arrived from the Netherlands where Shapeways are based, I'll post an update.

Nice! Did you know that somebody did a variant of Percy's basis?

[Chris Chewter]

Hi LNWR18901910.

 

I'm aware that Trojan was the basis for Awdrys "Percy", however Britt Allcrofts team made something slightly different for the TV series in the 1980's, and Percy's never been the same since!

 

Likewise, Whitehouse Films on RMWeb has made a beautiful replica of the Ffarquhar branch, but their videos seem to show a Hornby Percy running around (minus its face).

 

I have however found this:

 

 

I'm not too sure if these are Jack Taylors actual replica models, or if they are photographs of Awdrys actual locomotives.  The attempt at modelling Trojan can be found at 0.11 seconds into the 25 second video.  

 

But we digress from the actual star, which is "Trojan".  Unfortunately, when I visited Didcot earlier this month, she was nowhere to be seen, so hopefully she's receiving some much needed TLC!

Edited April 15, 2018 by Captainalbino

[Chris Chewter]

Just taken a look at the CSP Model site, and studied their lovely Avonside.

 

http://cspmodels.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=18#top_display_media

 

However if you inspect the photos of the CSP model against the photos I've recently taken, I think the wheels from the Pug are too small! Perhaps another compromise of using the Pug chassis rather than soldering your own from a CSP kit.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Captainalbino

[Chris Chewter]

By checking the IRS Website here: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/48/Trojan.htm, it states that Trojan was fitted with 3ft 3in drivers.  However, the LMS Pug received 3ft drivers. So if I have my calculations correct, the Hornby pug wheels are in fact 1mm too small.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Captainalbino

[Chris Chewter]

The 3D print arrived from Shapeways yesterday.  Today I've managed to unpack it and compare it against the Trojan cut-n-shut, and the IR Society website.

 

 

 

 

 

You'll notice that there is no backhead, but that's probably to do with the motor which completely obscures this area.

 

Also, the rear of the cab has struggled with printing and has bent outwards.  The cab struts are also not straight, and after i took the photographs, got knocked off.  Its no issue really as when I was inspecting the model, I was going to replace with a bit of wire.

 

Its also devoid of rivet details, however it needs a bit of sanding to remove the print lines which would probably loose the rivet details anyway.

 

In a crude comparison with the irsociety drawing, it compares fairly well, although it needs whistles, safety valves and a door dart.   The 3d printed representation for safety valves isn't anywhere near right.

 

 

 

I'm interested to see how it goes onto a Hornby pug chassis, as I found the boiler had to be shortened to accommodate the motor.  I now need to find the time to move this project forwards.  However its not an easy case to take off the pug body and affix the new, as you need to disassemble the motor housing first, so I need to find a bit of time to get this project on the go.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Captainalbino

[Chris Chewter]

I was trying to find a donor pug, when I decided to check whether a Peckett would do. Amazingly the W4 Peckett had the same wheelbase and wheel diameter as an Avonside. All I need to do now is wait for the next Hornby Peckett release to find one to chop about!

[Chris Chewter]

Well upon acquisition of Hornbys R3550 Lilleshall peckett, I can trial some different RTR chassis to see what works.

 

I felt a bit bad taking the peckett out of the box as it’s a lovely little loco. However, you simply remove two screws and you have a chassis ready to go.

 

 

The next mission is adapting the 3D printed Trojan to go over the top. Lots of cutting and removing the underside of the mounded boiler was necessary, but I got there in the end.

 

 

Once I slipped the chassis into place, There is clearly a gap between the running plate and the cast chassis. I could pack out the gap but is it worth it?

 

 

So out came a Hornby LMS pug which was dutifully disassembled and slipped underneath the Trojan body, however the underside of the boiler needs reinstating if I go with the Pug.

 

 

And a few different views;

 

Peckett chassis

 

 

Pug chassis

 

 

Looking at the photos, the peckett chassis works better with a bit of packing, but I dont think the 3D body is good enough to sacrifice a Peckett for. I’ll probably slip a static Dapol kit underneath for the remainder of this build because the lack of rivit detail on the 3D body really lets this option down.

 

So, do I sacrifice the Peckett, the Pug, or go static. What would you do?

[Barclay]

Just do it static I reckon - your original cut 'n' shut still looks great and that way you get to have the Peckett as well!

[Chris Chewter]

After some spraying and painting and a coat of gloss, she's looking a lot better.  Once the gloss coat has dried, I can start looking at adding detail such as handrails door darts and decals.

 

 

The 3D kit obviously is designed to fit the Hornby/Dapol pug chassis.  On trialling the motor, the hole in the cab floor fits perfectly.  Given that I have a Hornby Pug available and originally intended for this project, I'll use this to power the kit.  The Peckett can live to see another day!

[Chris Chewter]

A bit more progress.

 

Whistles and safety valve from an old Hornby "Smokey Joe" body that I purchased to do another cut and shut.  Handrails are from the Hornby Pug.  Door dart is an Alan Gibson set with 5mm handles cut to suit.

 

[Chris Chewter]

Well I make that a successful day!

 

[Chris Chewter]

I've been waiting for a 6 pin harness to arrive from Digitrains to allow me to reassemble the loco.  Wheels are on and she's running very nicely! A quick video of her running around can be found here:

 

 

Side by side, you can see how I've got the boiler too short on the Mk1 verson.

 

 

Front and rear views for comparison

 

 

 

Sadly you can see that whilst reassembling trojan mk2, she took a tumble and the carpet monster claimed the rear set of buffers.

 

At the moment, the cab roof is blu-tak'd on.  (I need to find a better way of keeping that in place.)  Also I may put some lamp irons and crew on in due course. I also need to apply some Johnsons Klear to take away the brush strokes from the gloss coat.

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Captainalbino

[Chris Chewter]

I am quite tempted to fit sound into it, but it would involve putting a Sugercube speaker on the footplate and hiding it behind some crew.  I could fit a speaker in the boiler, but as you can see by the video, she's running nicely and I don't want to remove and refit the motor again!  However those buffers need repairing first!

[Chris Chewter]

Whilst waiting for a set of Slaters sprung buffers to turn up to repair Trojan Mk2, I was looking at the pair, and it seemed pointless to keep two matching locomotives, so I think Trojan Mk1 shall receive a new paint job. 

 

I found a lovely photo of Trojan at Alders paper mill, and thought a repaint into a light shade of industrial green might be nice.  

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/5675394617

[Chris Chewter]

Poor old Trojan mk1 hasn’t gone to plan. The loco was stripped ready to repaint. In a haste, I read on the can that you can repaint after 15mins. I ignored my screaming better judgement, and of course the paint crazed.

 

 

So Trojan was given a bath of oven cleaner and currently some imperfections are being filled before I sand and try again.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Chris Chewter

[Chris Chewter]

Trojan Mk1 has been repainted in Alders paper mill green and looks the part, although the multiple repaints has made it a challenge.

 

 

I’ll try to get a few more photos later.

 

The problem now is that whilst she runs acceptably well on the rolling road, when light engine on the layout, she puts up a fight, so will need taking apart... again!

[Chris Chewter]

I've gone away and had lunch, a mug of tea, and a bit of a think.  One of the problems I had was the loco wasn't secure at the front resulting in some rough running.  She'd work acceptably on a rolling road, but would struggle when let loose on the layout.

 

 

So I took the keeper plate off and refitted the centre screw.  This seemed to catch a thread in the base of the chassis pulling the body down towards the chassis and resulting in vastly improved performance!

 

 

Now the runnings improved, I've fitted a driver. 

 

 

Just need to remove the glue marks from the name plates and I think she's close enough for me!