Western Region Class 37's in the 1970's

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

Hi 

 

I am looking for help in finding loco numbers class 37's which worked or were allocated to the Western in Devon, Cornwall Somerset & Avon in the period 1974-1976?

 

Many Thanks

 

Phill

[toffee]

Allocations ? Zero, all WR 37s were centre head code efforts. South of Bristol was only just getting visits by WR 37's and a few Eastern ones popped up on inter regional workings, if you have access to old copies of Railway Magazine and Railway World for the time you might get a few numbers.

Even workings into Type 3 heaven, otherwise known as South Wales were few. As usual STJ had the most with less getting through the further West you went. As a spotter in Cardiff at the time I would say the only booked working for an ER 37 was the Monday Only acid tanks from Hull to Baglan which was booked Tinsley 37 but chucked in a few oddities such as March and Heally Mills. Brian of the parish might chuck some other workings at you.

Of course the Tidal Branch got more, usually steel workings from South Humberside/Sheffield, but all as and when, likewise ER 31's and ER 20s !

 

John

[br2975]

1974-1976 would be the first two years of TOPS numbering, as most WR locos were renumbered in a short time around April, 1974.

 

I don't recall any split headcode allocations to South Wales, probably until a few (very few) in the sectorisation/pre-privatisation era; and I don't think St.Blazey got any at all.

.

In South Wales west of Severn Tunnel Junction they were not unknown, but not common.

.

They were occasionally found on the 8E46 Radyr - Normanby Park (coal), and the inbound working which I believe was a Scunthorpe - Tidal Sidings or Long Dyke Jct. as required.

.

As traffic declined in the mid-70s, there was a surfeit of 'six eighters' which coped with the withdrawal of the Hymeks, and the underpowered 25s and sluggish 31s (foisted upon the WR by Marylebone Rd. in a fit of anti-hydraulic pique); so there was no real need to bring in additional split box 37s.

.

I do recall the afternon of Saturday 1st. May 1971, when 8 'six-niners' arrived (as a mass transfer) at Canton from Healey Mills in blocks of 3, 2 and 3. ( 6914+6927+6930, 6917+6939, 6918+6923+6929 )

.

These were all centre headcode locos, and IIRC were to replace Hymeks.

.

I'll check my notes later for any contradictory info.

.

HTH

.

Brian R

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

I have changed my original question from split head code to all types, as split head codes seems to be a non starter?

 

Cheers Phill

[Fat Controller]

'Six-Seveners' did work very occasionally as far as Llandeilo Junction in the early 1970s; the working was a Whitemoor- Llandeilo Jct, mainly conveying tinplate from the adjacent Trostre works. I don't think the south-west got an allocation of 'six-eighters' until St Blazey got some in the 1980s; before that, the only workings I can think of that might have got locos south of Bristol were the fly-ash trains for the M5 construction, and the experimental 'high-speed' workings, which I think were Plymouth- Paddington. In neither case were the locos allocated to the South West.

[Rivercider]

I very rarely remember any 37s west of Bristol until the late 1970s, though I did once see one of the flyash workings, previously mentioned, passing through Weston.

 

My 1977 loco shed book as printed ( details correct to November 1976) shows no 37s allocated to Bath Road or Laira.

During 1977 37142 and 37267 became the first two 37s to be allocated to Laira.

 

My 1978 loco shed book as printed (details correct to October 1977) shows no 37s allocated to Bath Road

During 1978 37203-8, 37224, and 37231 moved to Bath Road the first of the class to be allocated there I believe,

though two pairs of them were employed on the Tytherington - Wolverton stone trains each weekday, so they were still rare west of Bristol

 

cheers

[br2975]

'Six-Seveners' did work very occasionally as far as Llandeilo Junction in the early 1970s; the working was a Whitemoor- Llandeilo Jct, mainly conveying tinplate from the adjacent Trostre works.

6E53 1543 Llandilo Jcn-Whitemoor was the up working, best rummage through my notes for the down service.

.

I've got a photo of 6814 (GFYE) on an up working at Cardiff in Sept. 1969. The headcode is 9C87 which would have been a Radyr based duty.

.

On 2nd. October, 1971 I went to STJ for the 6000 KGV return to steam, but on the depot were

6781 (BFYE) with a headcode of 8B25 on the down facing end, and

6788 (GFYE) with a headcode -V62 also on the down facing end.

.

Brian R

[toffee]

This tells the story of the Laira 37s http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/articles-section.html

As can be seen only two made it into the West before 1980, 267 was an odd choice, a straight move from Stratford of all places. I remember 142 going South and being told by an ex spotter who was a second man at STJ that it was the weakest WR one in his book, coincidence ? Before this time basically 37 workings were very rare from anywhere to west of Exeter.

A curiosity with the class in S Wales which Brian might agree with me was that 'foreigners' when they came into the area was that they didn't hang around and get borrowed for local workings, ok the odd one did but usually they came in and returned quickly. On the other hand 47 s from any where once in the area stuck around for days and weeks, LMR duffs worked day in and out on local workings, Stratford locos were quite common and even FP duffs would turn up on 'Padd's' for days on end, as I said curious.

[br2975]

At the end of the 1960s BR (WR) introduced a system whereby coal empties entering South Wales would be terminated at East Usk Junction Yard (Newport) or Jersey Marine Yard (Swansea) and not Severn Tunnel Junction.

The empties would then be worked from East Usk / Jersey Marine to either localised yards (e.g. Radyr / Rogerstone ) or direct to loading points (e.g. collieries, washeries)

This process has been described previously by Mike ‘stationmaster’ and was eventually referred to as “Block Plan” if I remember correctly.

Coal trains from local (South Wales) yards and loading points would quite often run to East Usk or direct to STJ, but my experience was the ‘foreign’ power arriving at East Usk would run light to STJ and stable, awaiting a return load on a service originating from STJ.

Further west toward Cardiff, most‘foreign’ power arrived on what were usually company or block loads, which in the Cardiff area could terminate at several locations e.g. Tidal Sidings, Marshalling Sidings, Long Dyke Jcn.

Return loads/workings often originated at Radyr (albeit some did originate at other locations in and around Cardiff) and would employ the locos that arrived at Tidal etc from foreign parts and which had run light to Radyr.

Some such services appear to have been;
8E46 Radyr Quarry – Normanby Park
8E52 Radyr Quarry - Treeton
8E55 TO Radyr - Penshaw
8E55 ThO Bargoed Pits - Penshaw
8E63 Radyr Quarry – Scunthorpe

The great majority of ‘foreign’ Class 37s that I recorded in South Wales from the late 1960s and during the 1970s were 41A Tinsley allocated locos. March 31B locos were infrequent visitors, possibly on the Whitemoor – Llanelli service.

I don’t recall ever seeing a Stratford example in the Cardiff area at this time, as most freight services along the SWML/GWML to London and the Home Counties appear to have originated in South Wales and were usually Cl.47, Hymek or Western hauled.

With the LMR being sandwiched between the industrial areas of the ER and South Wales it is understandable as to the limited number of ER allocated Type 2 and Type 3 power that reached South Wales.

 

The diagrams in South Wales could be quite intensive, and confusing.

e.g.

Some inter-regional workings could start at either Jersey Marine or Radyr (as required), yet a service starting at Jersey Marine could go direct to it's destination (let's say West Drayton or Acton) using a Cl.47, Hymek or Western; or, alternatively via Radyr with perhaps a Landore Cl.37 from JM - Radyr, and a different loco taking over at Radyr.

Brian R

[toffee]

Not wanting to hi-jack this thread and turn it into 'all my yesterday's ' for the Cardiff spotters I would just like to add one more memory.

Thanks Brian, you have obviously done a fair amount of research into South Wales freight workings and made a lot of what I saw make sense now, a mere 40 years later ! I agree with your Eastern 37 s being mostly Tinsley ones, although I did see a 1 or 2 March ones turn up light at Pengam, no doubt having worked into STJ or East Usk and working home. 1or 2 also turned up on passenger turns off New St. No doubt all that a power hungry Saltley had to offer. Then there was the evening 1V88 Newcastle - Cardiff came round the bend at Pengam with a dead Peak being hauled all the way from the North East by a required Thornaby 37 200 NB to boot ! Which also worked the next part of the diagram the 17-45 Manchester, what a way to get your tenth last 37 !

Stratford 37 s never happened, the only one I saw was 37 260 at STJ on an empty Cartic waiting to get home around '73. Though their 47s were fairly common turning up around 1 a week.

I would say though that Eastern 31's did turn up quite often in the mid 70's, this afternoon I dusted off a few old notebooks and the top one covering July and Aug 75 had 31145 IM run in light and drift down the dock line in search of a return train at 21-00 on July 24, July 31 had 31219 turn up light at 18-42 and work out the loaded coal 8E38 at 20-30. August 12 bringing 31242 in light again at 18-33 and out on 8E38 again at 20-35. And next day 31229 bring 6V50 a Scunthorpe ? Steel train on the dock line. So you can see Eastern 31s did turn up quite frequently, well at least at Pengam, which is why I joined the Bridge Boys there, far more fun than at the General or Canton ! Anyway quite enough ramblings from me, time to return to the original thread.

[br2975]

Not wanting to hi-jack this thread and turn it into 'all my yesterday's ' for the Cardiff spotters

Too late, it's been hijacked !

 

I would say though that Eastern 31's did turn up quite often in the mid 70's, .................................6V50 a Scunthorpe ? Steel train on the dock line. So you can see Eastern 31s did turn up quite frequently, well at least at Pengam,

6V50 ahoy, Immingham's 5531 waits for the road into Canton, 11th. July, 1973.

.

Other locos/units recorded that afternoon included:- 33,182, 1010/28/33, 1548/52,1637/49/87,1901/28/29/32/39/44, 3258+3960, 3753, 5179+5181, 5531, 6604,6876/77,6927/36/39/76/81,6990+6991, 7509+7569,

TY401(50304+59115+50338), (50648+59296+50706), (50693+59299+50738)+(55029), (50658+59581+50711)+(56285), (51055+59417+51083),

.

.

Returning to the original topic, I have been through my 1970s Locoshed books, and Railway Observers and Cl.37s in the West Country were as scarce as hens teeth at that time. There was more chance of seeing a foreign Cl.31 than a WR Cl.37 west of Taunton.

 

Brian R

[toffee]

Oh well, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

Spending a lot of time trackside in '75 resulted in 76 cops in Cardiff. Just to show the sheer variety of 'foreigners' which worked in I will list the classes, 03-2, 08-2, 24-2, 25-30, 31-9, 33-1, 37-6, 40-7, 47-17. The shunters were either Landore ones passing through or reallocated. A mass of 25's shows just how many turned up, and these are just the cops and I already had over 75% of the class ! The 9 31's were eastern turning up on 6V50, 6V89 or reallocations to the WR. The 37's were 2 Thornaby, 5 March including 036 running light past Canton with 9A94 head codes at both ends so must have been borrowed for local work. A solitary 33 from HG not because they were rare but because I didn't need any of the usual EH ones.the 40's were on the infamous 'Guide Bridge Parcels' 6V10. I could list most of the locos which worked this most sought after working in '74 and all of them in its last year of working '76 if of any interest out there. It's ok it only ran from Oct to Xmas so not that many to list and bore people with ! Has Brian any tales of this working ? The General did get packed out with part time spotters for the first few nights it ran. The Duffs were a mixed bunch, my last Midland ones, my last Finsbury Park one, 407 ( on a Paddington, result !) a few Scott's and a Knottingley.

1976 cops were down to a miserable 21, 08-4, 25-6, 31-8, 37-2, 47-1. They still kept coming I just needed less of them :-( I also copped 2 withdrawn 4-subs going to Briton Ferry for scrap and a 4TC on a Pompey, times were getting hard ! An ominous aside is the sighting of the first 17 of the HSTs 253001-017, the times were a changin'.

[br2975]

One from your era 'toffee'- late 1976.

.

Just dropped my mother off at "Leo's" in Moorland Road to do the weekly "big shop".

.

Brian R

[toffee]

Wow, Leo's !! Haven't heard that name in donkey's years, I moved up the midlands in '82 and some things just fade from the memory. Canton lad by any chance Bri ? Posh we were, Whitchurch see...........:-)

Oh sorry, drifting off course again, ace phot, what's going on there then ? What is that L5xx set doing getting dragged, is that from when they used to work the Crewe's for a short time ? Never had the chance to ride them, another regret. Do you remember them working Padd- Swansea reliefs on summer Saturdays ?. Talking about summer trains, the Dated York - Tenby lobbing Knottingley duffs now and again ?

Do you remember those two local part time spotters/ scroats nicking the nameplate off Atlas on the arrival line one evening ? Just those two and me on the bridge watching in disbelief as they got it off and a quick jump across the tracks to home and never seen again.....it'll turn up in a local car boot one day.

And no, I never had anything to do whatsoever with the numbers painted on the noses of Radyr's 37's and the tin of red paint in my mothers garage is long gone..........

Ark, Ark the Lark for ever

[jonny777]

Oh well, might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

Spending a lot of time trackside in '75 resulted in 76 cops in Cardiff. Just to show the sheer variety of 'foreigners' which worked in I will list the classes, 03-2, 08-2, 24-2, 25-30, 31-9, 33-1, 37-6, 40-7, 47-17. The shunters were either Landore ones passing through or reallocated. A mass of 25's shows just how many turned up, and these are just the cops and I already had over 75% of the class ! The 9 31's were eastern turning up on 6V50, 6V89 or reallocations to the WR. The 37's were 2 Thornaby, 5 March including 036 running light past Canton with 9A94 head codes at both ends so must have been borrowed for local work. A solitary 33 from HG not because they were rare but because I didn't need any of the usual EH ones.the 40's were on the infamous 'Guide Bridge Parcels' 6V10. I could list most of the locos which worked this most sought after working in '74 and all of them in its last year of working '76 if of any interest out there. It's ok it only ran from Oct to Xmas so not that many to list and bore people with ! Has Brian any tales of this working ? The General did get packed out with part time spotters for the first few nights it ran. The Duffs were a mixed bunch, my last Midland ones, my last Finsbury Park one, 407 ( on a Paddington, result !) a few Scott's and a Knottingley.

1976 cops were down to a miserable 21, 08-4, 25-6, 31-8, 37-2, 47-1. They still kept coming I just needed less of them :-( I also copped 2 withdrawn 4-subs going to Briton Ferry for scrap and a 4TC on a Pompey, times were getting hard ! An ominous aside is the sighting of the first 17 of the HSTs 253001-017, the times were a changin'.

 

 

Now that is real nostalgia.

 

I only ever saw one 40 at Cardiff, and that was not on the Guide Bridge parcels. It seemed to be a pair of 25s whenever I saw it (mainly from a distance), and usually was dusk so I could not read the numbers.

 

Presumably that Swindon 3-car jobby had failed on a Cardiff-Crewe working?

[br2975]

Wow, Leo's !! Haven't heard that name in donkey's years, I moved up the midlands in '82 and some things just fade from the memory.

 

Canton lad by any chance Bri ? Posh we were, Whitchurch see...........:-)

No, Fairwater

 

Oh sorry, drifting off course again, ace phot, what's going on there then ?

What is that L5xx set doing getting dragged, is that from when they used to work the Crewe's for a short time ? Never had the chance to ride them, another regret. Do you remember them working Padd- Swansea reliefs on summer Saturdays ?.

The 'Inter-Ciyt' unit had failed, I seem to recall it was carrying passengers !

 

 

Talking about summer trains, the Dated York - Tenby lobbing Knottingley duffs now and again ?

I've got a slide somewhere of an ex-works high numbered 47 on one such working in Platform 3

 

Do you remember those two local part time spotters/ scroats nicking the nameplate off Atlas on the arrival line one evening ? Just those two and me on the bridge watching in disbelief as they got it off and a quick jump across the tracks to home and never seen again.....it'll turn up in a local car boot one day.

Nope - but I do recall the plate being nicked off 'Falcon' and was allegedly recovered by the BTP in a house in Splott.

 

And no, I never had anything to do whatsoever with the numbers painted on the noses of Radyr's 37's and the tin of red paint in my mothers garage is long gone..........

I have a few shots with numbers painted on the front - less Canaletto, more like Salvador Dali or Picasso.

 

Ark, Ark the Lark for ever

 

Coombes' pasties or Clarks pies anyone ??????

 

Sorry for the twelve month delay in repltying - can't understand how I missed this last post.

.

Brian R

[toffee]

Bri, I missed your reply to my reply :-)

 

Falcon's nameplate was nicked by a Canton fitter with the nickname of 'icky he was from Splott and I knew his brother who was a Pengam Bridge boy in the 70s. One day on the bridge I was shown a Polaroid of it in his bedroom...... I was under the impression that he was 'advised' to return it by his boss when what happened started getting around Canton. It didn't affect his job funnily enough but he did leave later on over a separate issue.

Radyr 37s with red numbers on the nose ? My excuse was it was dark ! Should have use spec savers. Bit before my time.

 

What shall we do next ? Last year of the Westerns in South Wales ? Dunno about you but I get fed up seeing endless books showing workings in the West Country, I remember the night I saw 6 of the last few going past Canton in around 90 minutes, photographers there were none. All no doubt wondering why they were thin on the ground in Plymouth.

Didn't the lads do us proud in France ?

[br2975]

Bri, I missed your reply to my reply :-)

 

Falcon's nameplate was nicked by a Canton fitter with the nickname of 'icky he was from Splott and I knew his brother who was a Pengam Bridge boy in the 70s. One day on the bridge I was shown a Polaroid of it in his bedroom...... I was under the impression that he was 'advised' to return it by his boss when what happened started getting around Canton. It didn't affect his job funnily enough but he did leave later on over a separate issue.

Radyr 37s with red numbers on the nose ? My excuse was it was dark ! Should have use spec savers. Bit before my time.

 

What shall we do next ? Last year of the Westerns in South Wales ? Dunno about you but I get fed up seeing endless books showing workings in the West Country, I remember the night I saw 6 of the last few going past Canton in around 90 minutes, photographers there were none. All no doubt wondering why they were thin on the ground in Plymouth.

Didn't the lads do us proud in France ?

 

Don't know how I missed this response all those months ago ?

.

I too get a bit hot under the collar when it appears that the 'thousands' only worked Paddington - Plymouth/Penzance.

.

You would think that 'thousand' enthusiasts and photographers in general had never heard of South Wales or thought the locals too hostile ?

.

I look back through my notes and reflect on what a varied diet of locos me would be served up in South Wales during the 70s.

.

Brian R

.

[The Johnster]

Re 37s working west of Bristol in the 70s, Canton had a turn with a train of tanks to Bridgewater which ran in the early evening and should have been familiar to spotters if only as it was one of the very few regular freight trains to run through Temple Meads.  4 wheel class B tanks but I cannot remember now if air or vacuum braked; we returned light engine to Canton.

[br2975]

Re 37s working west of Bristol in the 70s, Canton had a turn with a train of tanks to Bridgewater which ran in the early evening and should have been familiar to spotters if only as it was one of the very few regular freight trains to run through Temple Meads.  4 wheel class B tanks but I cannot remember now if air or vacuum braked; we returned light engine to Canton.

 

Bridgewater jogged my memory.

.

There were the PFA trains from Aberthaw - Puxton / Bridgewater as well, ran for about 18 months circa 1969-1970.

.

Booked for a pair of Canton 37s and a rake of MGR hoppers; I think there were at least two rakes running at a time.

.

I've got the details somewhere...............now, who can fit smoke units to MGR hoppers to simulate the dust cloud ?

[Fat Controller]

Re 37s working west of Bristol in the 70s, Canton had a turn with a train of tanks to Bridgewater which ran in the early evening and should have been familiar to spotters if only as it was one of the very few regular freight trains to run through Temple Meads.  4 wheel class B tanks but I cannot remember now if air or vacuum braked; we returned light engine to Canton.

Was this to the British Cellophane factory, or to the ROF at Puriton?

[Rivercider]

Was this to the British Cellophane factory, or to the ROF at Puriton?

From my time in Bristol TOPS starting in 1978 the only tanks I remember going into the ROF were tanks of sulphuric(?) acid from Hallen Marsh, and then only one at a time not trainload.

 

More likely would be caustic soda tanks for British Cellophane at Bridgwater which sometimes came from Baglan Bay.

Later the caustic soda sometimes came from Runcorn and at least once produced a class 40, later again the tanks passed on the Speedlink network not as a block train.

 

In the 1980s discharge equipment was installed at British Cellophane to unload fuel oil which came from various refineries including from South Wales,

but I guess this was later than The Johnsters timeframe

 

cheers

 

cheers

[Downendian]

Missed this one Phill,

My spotting notes are in Devon, but class 37s were a daily sighting in North Bristol (Parkway). They often worked from South Wales west on a number of different Acton bound freights and Parcels traffic. Also to Avonmouth with Coke traffic, many to Temple Meads on local passenger services and parcels and mixed freight. I distinctly remember one of the last green South Wales examples rumbling through Temple Meads with a freight from the South towards the Severn Tunnel in 1974/5. No idea of the service unfortunately, but I don't think they were rare South of Bristol. They were also regular performers banking the Danygraig-Stratford freightliner through the Severn tunnel Westbound, detached at Stoke Gifford.

Avonmouth traffic was also frequently worked by 37s from the North, IM, TI, GD, MR and HM examples I recall. The 3S15 Bristol-Sighthill parcels was often a returning working for an ER split box machine, detached at Bescot. The 3B01 Worcester- Bristol also sometimes turned up a split box 37, but was more often a 25 or a 31. I also remember cabbing 37 070 at Bath road in 1976, just before she was prepared for the 3S15.

A bit out of your timeline but pre-TOPs double headed 37s worked Fly ash trains from South Wales to Highbridge in 1970/71 for M5 construction work. I can supply a significant number of dates and numbers if you still need them.

Neil

[The Johnster]

From my time in Bristol TOPS starting in 1978 the only tanks I remember going into the ROF were tanks of sulphuric(?) acid from Hallen Marsh, and then only one at a time not trainload.

 

More likely would be caustic soda tanks for British Cellophane at Bridgwater which sometimes came from Baglan Bay.

Later the caustic soda sometimes came from Runcorn and at least once produced a class 40, later again the tanks passed on the Speedlink network not as a block train.

 

In the 1980s discharge equipment was installed at British Cellophane to unload fuel oil which came from various refineries including from South Wales,

but I guess this was later than The Johnsters timeframe

 

cheers

 

cheers

 

Baglan Bay rings a bell; was British Cellophane next to the main line on the up side just on the Bristol side of the station, this being where we left them though of course they may have been tripped elsewhere later?  Soz can't be more specific, especially as it was the only working we had west of Bristol in the freight links and should have been more 'notable', but it's a long time ago and my memory has forgotten how to be as good as it used to once was...  

 

I don't remember picking them up from Baglan, so presumably we relieved Margam men at Canton Sidings; how the back working was arranged I have no idea.  None of this helps the OP in his search for Cornish 37s...

[The Johnster]

Missed this one Phill,

My spotting notes are in Devon, but class 37s were a daily sighting in North Bristol (Parkway). They often worked from South Wales west on a number of different Acton bound freights and Parcels traffic. Also to Avonmouth with Coke traffic, many to Temple Meads on local passenger services and parcels and mixed freight. I distinctly remember one of the last green South Wales examples rumbling through Temple Meads with a freight from the South towards the Severn Tunnel in 1974/5. No idea of the service unfortunately, but I don't think they were rare South of Bristol. They were also regular performers banking the Danygraig-Stratford freightliner through the Severn tunnel Westbound, detached at Stoke Gifford.

Avonmouth traffic was also frequently worked by 37s from the North, IM, TI, GD, MR and HM examples I recall. The 3S15 Bristol-Sighthill parcels was often a returning working for an ER split box machine, detached at Bescot. The 3B01 Worcester- Bristol also sometimes turned up a split box 37, but was more often a 25 or a 31. I also remember cabbing 37 070 at Bath road in 1976, just before she was prepared for the 3S15.

A bit out of your timeline but pre-TOPs double headed 37s worked Fly ash trains from South Wales to Highbridge in 1970/71 for M5 construction work. I can supply a significant number of dates and numbers if you still need them.

Neil

Once worked a special coal train I think from Radyr to Portishead with a 37, for the power station, piloted from Temple Meads, the only time I ever went down that very scenic branch, and in daylight, too!