Beardybloke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Morning all, I've just got the baseboards for my revamped layout up and running and have the droppers soldered to the electrofrog points (the green arrows on the plans show the feeds to the frogs, and the assumption is that there will be insulating rail joiners on the 'V' rails of the points.) Despite being an electronic engineer (or perhaps because of it?) I'd like a second opinion before I start drilling and soldering... Could someone give my plan the once over and check it for me please? The two lower lines on the right come from the fiddle yard traverser and all others are sidings. The 'single slip' as it appears on the diagram is actually a bizarre hybrid of two live-frog points and an insulated settrack diamond (both points will be switched simultaneously), so having trawled the old RMweb for advice, I've adapted a 'how to' from that... but again, I'd like a second opinion There'll also be isolating sections at a few places - namely the two uppermost sidings, and possibly halfway along the loop... Thanks for any help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 You've avoided using a slip . Great; I'm not a fan of those. Thay may well always work fine, but I always prefer a little more robustness. You've not re-fed the loop at the bottom of the layout. I isolate & re-feed track at the frog end of every point (both rails, but only the frog one is strictly necessary). If you do not isolate & re-feed at least 1 end of each loop, you will get a short unless both points are switched together (which they won't if a motor fails to throw). Same goes for the 'single slip'. I would wire both point frogs independently & isolate them. I know you would always want to throw them together, but your motors may have other ideas. I also now solder a connector to every possible length of rail. I have not often suffered from poor contact at a rail join, but the more connections, the better (especially when one has probably been covered in paint & glue). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted December 17, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2009 Same goes for the 'single slip'. I would wire both point frogs independently & isolate them. I know you would always want to throw them together, but your motors may have other ideas. If there is only one motor driving both points, then the wiring for the frogs doesn't need to be independent, you just have to be careful that the mechanism moves both sets of switch rails at the same time and that the electrical switch breaks before the blades swing across. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Both the two points of the "slip" and the facing point of the crossing need to be considered as a single unit. If the left-lend point changes to route through the crossing BOTH of the following must also switch. Whereas the reverse is no necessarily the case - route to the siding. Best controlled by diodes on the motor feeds. To follow the golden rules: 1. The "slip" must be isolated from the facing point - there is no indication that this is intended. 2. the diamond needs to have independent power and not fed from the opposite side of the crossing otherwise that siding will not be DCC friendly. Personally, I would also isolate at the frog join inside the "slip" as already suggested - at least independent micro switches for each point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks for the help chaps! The plan was to use just one switch but two point motors for the 'slip', but I can now see the problem with that... so two switches and completely isolated frogs on the points. I've attached a new plan (slightly more detailed while I'm not at work, but assuming that the frog feeds are all there) showing the insulating breaks at the frogs (though not the isolating section breaks for the loop and sidings) - does this look more reasonable? Kenton - I'm afraid I'm not too sure what you're saying - which facing point do you mean in relation to the slip - the one from the loop line? Also, what do you mean by 'both of the following'? If one point of the slip is changed, the other must too, and the facing point (whichever it is) too? I'd assume that there are no limitations of the current the Peco passing contact switches can carry, so that both points could be switched from one point switch (though possibly with a bit of CDU backup). Finally, I presume that the diodes on the motor feeds would be set up in such a way that the points are all thrown together in one direction, but can be switched independently in the other? Sorry for the 20 questions, and thanks again for the help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Just to clarify my comments on point switching - just in case it is not obvious If point 1 is switched then 2 AND 3 must also switch. If point 3 is switched then only if point 2 is switched must point 1 be switched the "slip" wiring would be more complicated if the crossover was not insulfrog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 If there is only one motor driving both points. How would you do that? They would probably be at least 18" apart & the tiebars would not be on the same axis. If you mean that they would be WIRED together, then that would be fine as long as they are both working normally. If one were to become sticky then it may not throw properly & you would have a problem. Isolate & re-feed the lot in the first place & you'll protect against this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted December 17, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2009 How would you do that? They would probably be at least 18" apart & the tiebars would not be on the same axis. If you mean that they would be WIRED together, then that would be fine as long as they are both working normally. If one were to become sticky then it may not throw properly & you would have a problem. Isolate & re-feed the lot in the first place & you'll protect against this. Sorry, I was thinking of one tortoise motor. I believe it is possible to buy linkages that operate 2 points off one motor. http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Tortoise.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Sorry, I was thinking of one tortoise motor. I believe it is possible to buy linkages that operate 2 points off one motor. As they say - that's the way to do it! It doesn't have to be a Tortoise - but of course they are the best. It doesn't have to be purchased - you can build your own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Sorry, I was thinking of one tortoise motor. I believe it is possible to buy linkages that operate 2 points off one motor. http://www.circuitro...es/Tortoise.htm Linkages. Not sure which is easier, linkages or extra isolators. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Linkages. Not sure which is easier, linkages or extra isolators. I don't think linkages were being proposed as an alternative to isolation just as an alternative to separate point motors on the "slip" It is perfectly doable and relatively simple to set up so that both points of the slip change on the same point motor. It saves the cost of one motor if you are penny pinching/frugal/inclined that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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