Mine's the same - it may be that the later ones were lowered and needed additional clearance? Or it could have been to allow them to traverse sharper curves, I suppose...

If I ever get around to having a working standard gauge layout, I'll make use of this method if my 12-wheeler needs it - thanks!

RThompson

"In this case the underframe is the old Dapol version without cutouts but the bogies are Hornby."

Perhaps I should have made it more clear but yes I bought a separate Dapol underframe without cut outs.

Regards Ray

Thanks Steve, Ah yes, I bought one from the Engine Shed in Bognor for the immense sum of £24.95 in November 1988. Sadly I didn't think the paint finish was as good as the Hornby offering and I parted with the Dapol model getting only £8.00 in 2008 (selling it with just the 'cut-out' chassis).

Ray

Hi,

Were you able to slot the R8220 into the Airfix(ish) coupling holder and did the height of the coupling match the Bachmann's?  The only reliable "off the shelf" solution I can find is to use old Airfix tension lock coupling couplings, but they do not self centre.  The narrower Hornby tension lock couplings are unreliable coupled to the Bachmann equivalents (something to do with the close coupling mechanism I think).

Alun

Hello Alun

Well spotted, thank you for the question.

Yes fitting Hornby R8220 coupings required a little bit of trial and error and I have a part butchered coupling left over from the exercise.  I have had to study the pictures above to remind myself of what happened.  The view of the underside of the bogie shows that there were no modifications to the bottom of the R8220 coupling.  The view looking down on top of the bogie shows two things,  I used a small steel washer under the coupling to raise its height, and secondly I shaved some of the 'plastic' off the top and probably the sides of the 'prong' in order to get it to fit inside the Airfix / Dapol / Hornby pocket.  The couplings are not glued in and are held in place with the standard nylon clip.  I seem to recollect that I hardly had enough fingers and thumbs to hold all the bits together when finally pressing the 'clip' in place.  It probably goes without saying that fitting is best done with the bogie removed.   I modified two coaches both of which are fitted in between Bachmann Mk1s all fitted with Hornby R8220 couplings.  There are no springs of course in the Restaurant Car assembly so you might need to check how far the couping needs to protrude to prevent buffer locking.  However because the new modified coupling is only a friction fit inside its pocket it can easliy be adjusted.

The couplings on one Restaurant Car behaved perfectly.  However one coupling on the second Car was a particular nuiscance and appeared too low relative to the adjacent Bachmann vehicle.  I did try swapping vehicles around with some success but in the end I modified another coupling paring the plastic on the prong in such a way that the finished coupling would point in a slight upwards direction when fitted.

It is not an engineering solution.  However the couplings and rakes of coaches have been together now for perhaps three years.  During that I can only remember once having to push a coupling back into its pocket because the gap between the coaches was begining to open up.  The modification is completely reversible should you wish to sell the Restaurant Car.

I hope this  makes sense.  If you need more information - just ask.

Regards

Ray

Thanks very much Ray, it helps on two fronts, the 12 wheeler and also my more usual 1978 time frame - again former Airfix tooling's (but Mk2 this time), also along with Bachmann Mk1's.

I need to have a closer look at the respective "Hornby" and Bachmann bogies as I cannot see how the heights can be easily made to match, but they clearly do on your photographs!  Other than that, it makes perfect sense.  I'll sit down and have a proper play around later in the week.

Hello Alun

I have taken a closer look at the differences in height issues and added some more pictures to the end of my Flickr directory of Restauraant Car pictures.  I appear to have been speaking with forked tongue so to speak because at one end of the coach I see I have sandwiched the R8220 coupler between two washers, top and bottom.  There seems to me to be quite a wide tolerance on the Bachmann pockets so you just go for it and make it work.  Talking of working I have loaded a

I shall be interested to hear how you get on

Regards

Ray

Hi Ray,

Thanks again.  I've booked a last minute "long weekend" with my long suffering and our youngest so am away from the morning until next week, but I have the R8220's on the bench as it were.  I'm going to start off by having a go at close coupling my 1978(ish) Hornby Mk2D's and Bachmann Mk1 catering cars and BG's using the Hornby/Roco's although I'm also tempted to try what you did with your Syphons for the Mk2D's along with Bachmann 36-027 short cranked couplings for the Mk1's - see which method works best.

Then I will turn my attention to the 12 wheeler/RailRoad Stanier's/Bachmann Mk1's as I will need to take a craft knife to the Stanier's - not my favourite past time.  Also, it's the lesser priority as it's my son's rake, he's less fussy and it's hidden in the fiddle yard when it's just the big kid playing.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Best wishes,

Alun

Hello Alun

Good to read your message.  Ah yes the weekend, would that be something to do with Mother's day!  Hornby Railroad Staniers - are they the old Hornby Staniers or the even older Airfix perhaps that Dapol have just reintroduced?  I will look forward to an update.

Regards

Ray

Hi Ray,

The RailRoad Stanier's (from memory) originated in the late 1970's/early 1980's and are nothing more than a likeness.  They are symptomatic of Hornby at the time, are a bit short and poorly detailed, particularly the coach ends, underframes and bogies.  I have thought about changing them to the Dapol (Airfix) equivalents and imagine they would near enough match the 12 wheeler, but I might wait until I can justify circa

Hello Alun

I trust you were not celebrating Mother's Day up here in Scotland - its like winter .

Yes I do know the Hornby Staniers - I had three blood and custard which I bought between 1980 and 1982 for around

Hi Ray,

Well...  2 days of rain, then an "arctic blast", then snow, and finally a 16 month old with a tummy bug!  That said, we spent a very enjoyable Mothering Sunday at the East Lancs Railway: a Peppercorn K1 and a mixed rake of Mk1's and a Mk2Z.  There was also a Jinty in steam on a dining train.

The RailRoad Stanier coaches, they were part of a set I bought for my son more than 3 years ago, and they will probably have to stay for the time being.  The underframes of the Dapol Stanier's don't look right at all on the manufacturers website, although my local model shop is ostensibly a Dapol stockist.  I need to call in and see if they have a "prototype" to look at.

Buying and selling indeed...  I have come to the conclusion that buying for "future projects" is in my case at least, costly.  I keep buying things for the future, in case they become unavailable, only to find that when the project is coming close to fruition, something more appropriate (or less inaccurate) has come onto the market and more often than not, the piece of rolling stock I bought in the first place is still available on a popular online auction site, and for less than I paid in the first place.  I just do not seem to learn!

Anyway, this close coupling business, I will be back in touch once I've had chance to have a "play around".

Alun

Hi Alun,

Well  - a good place to spend Mother's Day.  How did you get away with that?

Good luck with the coaches.

Ray

Well  - a good place to spend Mother's Day.  How did you get away with that?

Hi Ray,

I cannot honestly say!

Bearing in mind Bachmann have announced Mk2F coaches, I need to get some good use out of my newish Hornby Mk2D's, while making sure they can be resold, so they will be the first to be "played" with.

With regard to the chamfer on the R8220, can I ask what tool you have used.  Is it just a small(ish) file?  I'm thinking accuracy and the smooth finish.  It may not be relevant to the Mk2D/Mk1 (and occasional Mk2A) rake, depending on how I get on with what you did to the Siphons and Bachmann's short cranked coupling, but it will become relevant with some of the other rakes.  I like what you've done, it makes much more sense then shaving a millimetre off the coach ends, which some propose.

Alun

With regard to the chamfer on the R8220, can I ask what tool you have used.

Hello Alun

The Hornby R8220 couplings are very tough Nylon.  Surplus material can be carefully pared away on a cutting mat using a sharp blade - I use snap off blades currently from Stanley although there are a number of other manufacturers / suppliers.  I have added some pictures to the end of this 'Set' showing before and after couplings and the knife I have been using.  I hadn't thought of using a file (or a Dremel) - I am not sure that you would get such a  smooth surface.  I should add that in four or five years I can only remember ruining one coupling.   You will see from the set of pictures I have also shortened the Hornby R8220 couplings.  However Nylon doesn't easily glue and I had to pin the two pieces together.

Good luck

Ray

Hi Ray,

I really think I should resort to PM or something, my comments have less and less to do with a 12 wheeled ex LMS Restaurant Car by the minute.

Both the R8220 (as you know) and the 36-027 work brilliantly with the Bachmann Mk1's, better than the supplied dummy brake pipe close couplings.  Those Mk1 coaches fitted with B4 and Commonwealth bogies don't require the R8220 to have a chamfer, until the incorrect riding heights are sorted out anyway.  I struggle to understand why that varies so much with otherwise similar stock from the same manufacturer.

However, more experimentation is required as neither work with the Bachmann Mk2's - the bogies and therefore the "NEM" pockets being too far inboard.  What might work here is alternating the factory fitted tension/lock and the shorter 36-027.  I need to come up with something for the "standard stock" before moving onto what are essentially 35+ year old Airfix and Hornby toolings, although I'm still thinking "Rays' Siphon's" and therefore tension/lock.

Whatever, it will be a compromise of what a 10 year old wants and what a 43 year old likes!

Thank you once again, your help and advice is proving invaluable.

Alun

I have recently bought a Triang Caledonian 65' ? coach, which has the wrong bogies (BR mk1), I believe. Is it possible to use the bogies from either the Pullman diner, or the ones from the LMS diner, both Hornby, to get the correct 6-wheel bogies? Also, how much butchering of the Caley coach would be required? I don't want to spend too much money on the project, as I only paid about

Hello Bob, thanks for asking, but a bit outside of my area of knowledge.  I guess you will have read this thread.  There is also another thread elsewhere.  There is mention of Hornby's six wheel restaurant car but no details!

If it was my project I think I would be sourcing an old restaurant car and butchering the underframe to remove the two coach ends with bogies and pivot points attached.  However as you will note from my own Post above the existing Restaurant Car sits too high, and if you are using the Hornby model as opposed to the earlier Dapol coach, you will need to infill the cutaway underframe that Hornby have provided to allow there coach to negotiate small radius curves.

An interesting and straightforward project - if you can assmeble the bits.  The Triang  Hornby spares outlet that used to be in Burnley had Dapol underframes.  The surplus stock still appears on eBay from time to time.

I hope this assists.  Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Ray

Thanks for the info, Ray. I'll investigate further, and report back. I'm bound for Bob Treacher's emporium in Alton tomorrow---he can probably come up with something.

Regards, Bob