Richard Pike Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Hi Guys, Just for piece of mind I am trying to trace a the identity of a working I used to see most afternoon's as a young boy around 1976/77/78 that used to pass through Sutton Junction level crossing on what is now the Robin Hood line. It used to pass through Southbound every afternoon at around 4.30, consisting of MGR wagons and always headed by a pair of 37's almost certainly from one of the local coal pits around Mansfield, somewhere in the back of my mind I think it was destined for Northfleet Cement works but despite searching the web have been unable to identify the working. The fact it was always worked by 37's ( possibly Tinsley / Shirebrook ER machines) was unusual as most of the MGR's where then I remember worked by 47's, the new 56's and to a lesser extent 20's. Any pointers appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Boyd Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 If memory serves me correctly the Northfleets were staged/re-engined at Toton, one up working left Toton around lunchtime and another one left in the early hours around 01-30ish, perhaps the train you saw formed the early morning departure from Toton. There was also MGR's from Mansfield area pits to Didcot that were similarly staged/re-engined at Toton but I don't recall what time they departed Toton. The use of Class 37's is explained by the fact that they weren't slow speed fitted so it's doubtful that the train was destined for a local power stations such as Ratcliffe. Regards, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Just to clarify, you say MGR wagons. Yer actual HAA type, or perhaps HEA's? Mick's point that Tractors aren't slow speed fitted leads me to query the terminology you see, MGR being pit to power station ad infinitum, which might help in your quest for eventual destination. Rail Express last issue kick started a feature on bulk coal flows, worth checking out. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted November 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2015 Knew I'd seen a photo somewhere.... 37226 & 37255 at Shirebrook by Auchlander, on Flickr The Northfleet working used to get a 45 and 47 combo on the SR, before the 56s arrived on the scene. Not sure why that was necessary unless there were some steep chords on and off the North and West London lines? Dartford Duo by Kevin Lane, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Just to clarify, you say MGR wagons. Yer actual HAA type, or perhaps HEA's? Mick's point that Tractors aren't slow speed fitted leads me to query the terminology you see, MGR being pit to power station ad infinitum, which might help in your quest for eventual destination. Rail Express last issue kick started a feature on bulk coal flows, worth checking out. C6T. It wasn't that unusual for MGRs to be headed by non-slow-speed fitted locos. In South Wales, for example, MGR trains for Aberthaw were worked by pairs of 37s as far as the Reception Loops, when a slow-speed 47 would take over. Not that many collieries (as opposed to opencast disposal points) had the bunkers for continuous loading, so it wasn't a problem using the 37s for most of the job. Trains for Didcot were sometimes staged at Washwood Heath, with trains being combined to give the longest permissible load for the run down to Oxfordshire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted November 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2015 A bit of further digging reveals that the Northfleet load was 43 HAAs, with 37s to Toton, 45 going forward to Cricklewood, with a slow speed controlled 47 added for the final leg of the trip. Welbeck was the originating colliery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Pike Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Thanks guys for all your answers, Welbeck - Northfleet all falls into place with a loco swap at Toton. I do seem to remember the loco's worked empties back through my town just before midnight which would probably tie in with Tovetunes suggestions of two workings a day from Toton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hi, It is a bit more interesting than that! The 6O62 Welbeck to Northfleet cement works was a 43 wagon MGR coal service. These were booked to be a pair of class 37's toToton then replaced with a pair of 47's and re-manned at Toton Yard, where an examination also took place before continuing the long journey to North Kent. When the service started in 1970 this service was being routed to London via the southern section of the West Coast Main Line, which was probably accessed at Northampton (having travelled via the line from Market Harborough). These MGR workings had only just commenced operating as the Northfleet plant had only just opened in 1970. Such workings were later routed down the Midland Main line to Cricklewood then across to the Southern by using the Cricklewood to Kew axis via Acton Wells Junction but it is not known when this in route change took place. Here is a link to a pic of the train at Kensington http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p779147002/h4847d2e1#h4847d2e1 Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Thought I had a picture somewhere. x2 TI Cl.37s accelerate away from Toton with the train c1977/78. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The Toton Northfleet working is discussed in some detail in Monk-Steel, David (2011) Merry-go-round on the rails. HMRS publishing, Butterley Station, Derbys. 196 pages ISBN 978-0-902835-30-6. Incidentally, when we spent 12 hours in Toton yard during 1978 one entire marshalling area was dedicated to holding MGR wagons. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhaapre80/e13c21916 Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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