Castle Aching

[Donw]

Thank you to Northroader and Jim for your responses. I have seen it done in 7mm with the stretcher bar having a bit which slides through a hole drilled in the rail webs soldered to the one in the blade and free to slide through the stock rail this keeps the end of the blade clearly in place and is protoypical but I thought rather fiddly for smaller scales. I am thinking of trying this for my next 7mm trackwork. I think Rich Brummitt arranged a pivot under the heel end for his 2mm layout.

I think Northroader's brass picture wire sounds like a good idea.

 

I have suggested Edwardian makes the heel joint dummy and effectively becomes a sprung switch it does seem to me to be increasing the difficulty if making a proper heel switch certainly for one's first efforts. 

 

Don

[Edwardian]

Thank you to Northroader and Jim for your responses. I have seen it done in 7mm with the stretcher bar having a bit which slides through a hole drilled in the rail webs soldered to the one in the blade and free to slide through the stock rail this keeps the end of the blade clearly in place and is protoypical but I thought rather fiddly for smaller scales. I am thinking of trying this for my next 7mm trackwork. I think Rich Brummitt arranged a pivot under the heel end for his 2mm layout.

I think Northroader's brass picture wire sounds like a good idea.

 

I have suggested Edwardian makes the heel joint dummy and effectively becomes a sprung switch it does seem to me to be increasing the difficulty if making a proper heel switch certainly for one's first efforts. 

 

Don

 

I have no idea what any of this means!  I have simply not addressed my mind to the question of how the working parts work.

 

In my stash of bits and bobs acquired over the Armchair Decades, I find a turnout from "Marcline Universal Points", which appears to be a ready-made, hand-made point produced with FB rail soldered to PCB sleeper. 

 

The point blades are not hinged at all.  The closing of them simply involves using the natural springiness of the rail.  As such, of course, the blades won't remain closed, so, I assume, there would need to be a point motor to hold them in place.

 

Am I to make mine in a similar way?

[St Enodoc]

I have no idea what any of this means!  I have simply not addressed my mind to the question of how the working parts work.

 

In my stash of bits and bobs acquired over the Armchair Decades, I find a turnout from "Marcline Universal Points", which appears to be a ready-made, hand-made point produced with FB rail soldered to PCB sleeper. 

 

The point blades are not hinged at all.  The closing of them simply involves using the natural springiness of the rail.  As such, of course, the blades won't remain closed, so, I assume, there would need to be a point motor to hold them in place.

 

Am I to make mine in a similar way?

Yes, that is what Don is suggesting.

[Edwardian]

Yes, that is what Don is suggesting.

 

Good, so I am getting the gist!

 

Thanks

[Hroth]

With a turnout like that, there wouldn't be this modernistic faffing about with electrical point motors, it'd be either operated by The Hand Of God moving a Hornby Dublo type point lever (a snail cam?), a wire in tube setup or even real point rodding....

 

Nowadays, we're all implementing Modernisation Plans with Power Boxes instead!

[Northroader]

Just to fill in from my previous post, I’ve done a picture of the infamous double slip on Washbourne with one of the blades detached from the tie bar, to give a better idea of how the sole plate is done to support the blade. At the other end the joiner is soldered at the one end to the stockrail, then slightly eased out with a craft knife to allow the blade some movement. The brass wire strands come from “picture hanging wire” with the bright steel strands taken out. It needs to be soldered very snugly to the railweb, as you’ll appreciate the wheel flange is passing very close to it.

[Edwardian]

Book on the Bourne to Saxby has arrived.

 

It is a great resource for any interested in modelling the line, as every bridge is catalogued, and there are map sections for each feature.  Many photographs exist of the building of the GC's London Extension, only 5 or so years later, and it is interesting to compare the two. 

 

Some interesting traffic notes are also included.

 

For instance, a couple of Midland 0-4-4Ts were stabled in the GN shed at Spalding for passenger services and a Midland 0-6-0 for through goods to London. 

 

By my period of interest, 1905, the Midland's Birmingham Express, known by the M&GN as "the Leicester" ran all year.  At Melton Constable it split into 3 portions, one of which was for Cromer, and so it struck me that the Midland Brake Composites seen there in charge of a Midland 0-4-4T (on loan to the M&GN) might well have come from this service. I will link to the page (post #5847), as, unbelievably, the post is now 6 pages back (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/page-234). 

 

We have discussed Midland locomotives continuing to work on the western section of the M&GN, indeed, its whole length, to South Lynn, and we have a picture of a Johnson 2-4-0 at South Lynn in the 1903-1907 period to show that this went on into the 1900s, even after the delivery of the 40 Johnson 4-4-0s to the M&GN in 1894-99 (post #5915 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/page-237)).  Thus, it is no surprise to see the text refer to Midland locomotives at South Lynn.

 

What is new is the suggestion that the influx of motive power meant that M&GN 4-4-0s might be seen on the Birmingham Express as far as Leicester, which, it is explained, is why the Joint referred to this through express and "the Leicester".

 

What a wonderful station Spalding would be to model in pre-Grouping days, with GN, Midland and M&GN motive power in evidence.

 

Finally, this is how you knew you'd reached the end-on junction at Little Bytham:  

[Adams442T]

Spalding is a delightful station, still retaining many original features.   I could be tempted.........................

[Edwardian]

Spalding is a delightful station, still retaining many original features.   I could be tempted.........................

 

Unreliable memory and the passage of so many pages left me struggling to recall that it is you I must thank for bringing this volume to my attention.  Thank you indeed.

 

I suspect Spalding saw a lot of GN traffic as a secondary mainline, but would be easier than modelling ECML traffic and the vast railway complex around Peterborough Cowgate, and yet, you would have the same mix of companies.

 

Whereas the inclusion of GE traffic at Peterborough would involve expanding the scene even further, at Spalding you have it in the form of the GE-GN Joint, an important line and a very neglected subject. Plenty of scope for Y14s on mineral traffic and, at one stage, there was a GE "Cathedrals Express", IIRC.

 

I do notice, however, that the M&GN effectively had a cut-off south of the station, which, I guess, "the Leicester" might have avoided?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Edwardian

[Fenman]

... I do notice, however, that the M&GN effectively had a cut-off south of the station, which, I guess, "the Leicester" might have avoided?

Yes, exactly so. Although the embankment which carried the cut-off started collapsing in the early 1950s. Rather than repair it, from that time until the M&GN's demise the Leicester was routed via (and with a reversal at) Spalding - adding yet more time to what, with the best will in the world, only carried an "express" title as a courtesy.

 

Your new book is one of my favourites: everything looks so pristine. And seen through the eyes of the resident engineer, rather than some jobbing photographer.

 

Paul

Edited October 19, 2017 by Fenman

[Nearholmer]

My minuscule knowledge of Spalding comes from excursion trains that used to go there for the flower festival in the early 1970s, which made for a dirt cheap way of visiting the faraway eastern region, if you didn't mind riding for hours with the members of the women's institute. I don't know if that festival has a long history, but if it does, it would make a great excuse for a layout with trains from "all over". There are some piccys here, which will make sense to those who are 'into' diesels. http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/SpaldingstationBRone.html

Edited October 19, 2017 by Nearholmer

[TheQ]

My minuscule knowledge of Spalding comes from excursion trains that used to go there for the flower festival in the early 1970s, which made for a dirt cheap way of visiting the faraway eastern region, if you didn't mind riding for hours with the members of the women's institute. I don't know if that festival has a long history, but if it does, it would make a great excuse for a layout with trains from "all over". There are some piccys here, which will make sense to those who are 'into' diesels. http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/SpaldingstationBRone.html

Sorry the Spalding flower festival ran only from 1959 to 2013....

 

More importantly not long to the Spalding MRC Show

 

http://www.spaldingmodelrailwayclub.org.uk/

Edited October 19, 2017 by TheQ

[Edwardian]

Very attractive station, indeed.

 

"Spalding station looking north before 1903": http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/spalding/spalding(alsop_before1903)old2.jpg

 

Is that a ticket platform?

 

And http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/spalding/spalding(alsop_before1903)old1.jpg

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

I think this has been posted before, but since we have been talking of the Bourne to Saxby line:

[Nearholmer]

Ticket platform?

 

Might be, but to me it looks like what would nowadays be called "an authorised walkway", but raised-up to avoid the need to walk along a run of point-rodding. Is the loco shed or similar off in that direction, necessitating lots of toing and froing by staff.

[Edwardian]

Sorry, too much of interest going on.

 

Here is a Midland Railway 2-4-0.  I assumes its a Kirtley design.  Here it is, though, on the M&GN all the way to Cromer Beach: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-OF-CROMER-BEACH-RAILWAY-STATION-ON-THE-SPALDING-TO-YARMOUTH-LINE-/282646791869?hash=item41cf0fc6bd:g:HlsAAOSwQBFZtSpp

[Caley Jim]

Nowadays, we're all implementing Modernisation Plans with Power Boxes instead!

Speak for your yourself! I'm nearly all wire on tube from a proper lever frame with catch handles and interlocking. The yard and interchange sidings are 'modern' memory wire operation as I plan eventually to be able to operate them from either side of the layout.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

Speak for your yourself! I'm nearly all wire on tube from a proper lever frame with catch handles and interlocking. The yard and interchange sidings are 'modern' memory wire operation as I plan eventually to be able to operate them from either side of the layout.

 

Jim

 

Jim, might you have a picture that illustrates this arrangement?

[Compound2632]

Sorry, too much of interest going on.

 

Here is a Midland Railway 2-4-0.  I assumes its a Kirtley design.  Here it is, though, on the M&GN all the way to Cromer Beach: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTO-OF-CROMER-BEACH-RAILWAY-STATION-ON-THE-SPALDING-TO-YARMOUTH-LINE-/282646791869?hash=item41cf0fc6bd:g:HlsAAOSwQBFZtSpp

 

I think this is No. 198A of Kirtley's 170 Class. I've dug out David Hunt's article on Kirtley-era 2-4-0s in Midland Record No. 33: The 170 Class were 30 engines with 6'2" diameter driving wheels and cylinders 16 1/2" diameter x 22" stroke, Nos. 170-199 built by Beyer Peacock in 1867. The class were rebuilt by Johnson in 1880-83, when they received type C boilers, with the exception of No. 198, which was given the B boiler and also 18" diameter cylinders in December 1892. (Although Hunt doesn't say so, I think this was probably a second rebuilding.) This conformed to the way the 156 Class 2-4-0s were being rebuilt; why No. 198 should be treated differently to the rest of the 170 Class isn't known. It went onto the duplicate list as No. 198A in July 1894 and was withdrawn in February 1904.

 

Now the interesting bit! Hunt says, giving Ahrons as his source:

 

"In July 1893, No. 198 was sent on loan to the M&GNJR where it was joined seven months later by 185A. The latter probably remained there virtually until withdrawal (March 1896), but 198 was sent to Saltley for working Birmingham - Yarmouth and Cromer trains to Bourne when the Saxby to Bourne line opened in 1894."

 

I checked against Ahrons, Locomotive and Train Working in the Latter Part of the Nineteenth Century, Vol. 2 p. 77; Ahrons says the working from Birmingham was a daily round trip.

 

So this photo could well have been taken in the short period between July 1893 and the opening of the Saxby & Bourne line the following year (date?). Although the number is partly hidden by the trailing driver spring, I think its position is consistent with the number not yet having changed from 198 to 198A.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Compound2632

[Caley Jim]

Jim, might you have a picture that illustrates this arrangement?

There are photographs of the lever frame and of the memory wire actuators here , third fourth and sixth photos down, there's a photo of the underside of the lever frame here and one of the locking table is in the post following that.   I've yet to do anything about setting up panels to allow the yards to be operated from the front.

 

HTH

 

Jim

 

Edited to fix links

Edited October 19, 2017 by Caley Jim

[Nearholmer]

Matter of extreme pedantry, relating to an earlier posting:

 

I don't think HD point levers are 'snail cams'; they consist of a helix on a barrel, just like the ones that I have on my 0 gauge layout, which are based on a pre-WW2 Hornby design.

 

If you want to see a snail cam, one place to look is brake-adjuster on a Series 1,2 or 3 Land Rover.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

Matter of extreme pedantry, relating to an earlier posting:

 

I don't think HD point levers are 'snail cams'; they consist of a helix on a barrel, just like the ones that I have on my 0 gauge layout, which are based on a pre-WW2 Hornby design.

 

If you want to see a snail cam, one place to look is brake-adjuster on a Series 1,2 or 3 Land Rover.

I did question my description and thanks for the correct usage!  Dunno why the word crept into my mind.

[Donw]

Personally I feel that a lever frame is right for a pre-group layout. However we are not all as skilled as Jim ( who built the lever frame from his own etches I have seen the design for the etches very clever), a simple row of switches either to operate point motors or to switch the crossing polarity with a linked wire in tube to operate the turnout. Typically the wire in tube is connected to the switch lever or knob any excess movement is absorbed by an omega loop. If the turnout moves freely there should be enough resistance to hold the turnout over. The other option of point motors can be expensive but I intend investigating the possibility of hacking a servo to produce a low cost solution after seeing what others have achieved.

Others prefer the Mimic type diagram where the section switches and turnout switches are on a diagram of the layout. This is usually suited to point motor operation although some bright spark will now post an example of wire in tube on a mimic diagram.

 

Don

[Caley Jim]

 However we are not all as skilled as Jim ( who built the lever frame from his own etches I have seen the design for the etches very clever),

Gee, ta Don!  Slight correction though.  The lever frame is built from scratch, it was the locking table that was an etch.  As I think I've mentioned before, in my teens I spent many a happy hour 'working' an ex-CR box at the invitation of the signalman, so having proper Stevens style interlocked levers is a bit of nostalgia for me.

 

Jim

[Regularity]

Gee, ta Don!  Slight correction though.  The lever frame is built from scratch, it was the locking table that was an etch.  As I think I've mentioned before, in my teens I spent many a happy hour 'working' an ex-CR box at the invitation of the signalman, so having proper Stevens style interlocked levers is a bit of nostalgia for me.

 

Now that is real dedication to the finescale cause: not just levers, not just interlocking, having the proper style of lever, too.

I gave only ever met one other modeller who went that far.