Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Peak Bustle? She strikes me as highly Renoirish:

 

 

Apologies. it was Seurat I was thinking of:

 

 

... if you get my point. 1884-6, if that helps!

[TheQ]

No turrets but both in North Norfolk near or in Mundesley both perched on the cliffs so definitely on unstable ground. 

The Grand Hotel which is now a block of flats and  the manor hotel still in business. 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Not on unstable ground, but one of the best hotel/station conjunctions, I think, even today.

[corneliuslundie]

Not Norfolk and a bit too big but with the eclectic mix of features:

And a pianist at lunchtime in the restaurant. Grand hotel, Folkestone, now rather past its best but still open.

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Apologies. it was Seurat I was thinking of:

 

 

... if you get my point. 1884-6, if that helps!

 

Yep, that's Peak Bustle era

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Not on unstable ground, but one of the best hotel/station conjunctions, I think, even today.

 

 

So whose ventilated or fruit van is that? M&GN? I've had a quick leaf through Tatlow Vol. 1; it's got a very passing resemblance to Great Northern vehicles of this type - door and end framing is very different - and doesn't resemble anything Great Eastern either. Of course Tatlow is interested in what made it past Grouping, so it could be an earlier vehicle from either company? It certainly isn't Midland.

[Edwardian]

OK.  We could go for a West Runtonesque station, on the basis that the money had run out.  

 

As suggested, I could insert an extra storey into the Glebe Hotel design?

 

[Edwardian]

43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

So whose ventilated or fruit van is that? M&GN? I've had a quick leaf through Tatlow Vol. 1; it's got a very passing resemblance to Great Northern vehicles of this type - door and end framing is very different - and doesn't resemble anything Great Eastern either. Of course Tatlow is interested in what made it past Grouping, so it could be an earlier vehicle from either company? It certainly isn't Midland.

 

looks GE to me

[Caley Jim]

58 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Not on unstable ground, but one of the best hotel/station conjunctions, I think, even today.

Pitlochry can beat that!

 

Cross the footbridge (if travelling from the south), out the station, cross the end of station road and into the garden of the hotel from where there is a door into the back of the hotel! not much more than 200yds.

 

Jim

[Argos]

Sorry, no competition:-

 

[Nearholmer]

We’ve been here before, maybe in ‘Umber is the New black’, and I still defend West Runton on grounds of cosy banality ..... it looks the sort of place where, however hard you tried to have an interesting holiday, you would perish of boredom and over-eating (which are pretty much inseparable in my case).

 

The van is probably M&GN, because I think it’s ‘grounded’.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

I'll second Runs as Required's choice of the Zetland Hotel, Saltburn.

 

The layout is clear from this modern image 2mm scale layout.

 

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Not on unstable ground, but one of the best hotel/station conjunctions, I think, even today.

Prefer the WHR where they have a station in the middle of a campsite. That was certainly very nice when I was camping there as we were right by the line. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by RedGemAlchemist
Put an F at the beginning of WHR mistakenly

[Argos]

Or you could always go for a hotel with its own railway:-

 

 

 

It wasn't just tramcars collecting passengers but coal and goods were run from exchange sidings at the local station and the tramway moved laundry from the hotel to the washrooms and back.

From memory it was 3' 6" gauge line with OLE.

[Edwardian]

22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

The van is probably M&GN, because I think it’s ‘grounded’.

 

Beg pardon, it is, indeed, M&GN. It's their standard covered wagon design. 16' body and 9'6" w/b, built between 1879 and 1883, so I assume they were built by the Eastern & Midland.

 

They were apparently through-piped and some dual-braked, so they got about a bit.  Apparently all of them survived to be divided between the LMS and LNER in 1928.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, Argos said:

Or you could always go for a hotel with its own railway:-

 

 

 

It wasn't just tramcars collecting passengers but coal and goods were run from exchange sidings at the local station and the tramway moved laundry from the hotel to the washrooms and back.

From memory it was 3' 6" gauge line with OLE.

 

Considering trams for Birchoverham next the Sea, the resort that took off.

 

Thinking too of ripping of the Hotel de Paris, Cromer.

 

 

[Martin S-C]

8 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Looking at the lady on the upper walkway, and applying the newly developed science of Bustlology, I am tempted to conclude that the picture could be from the First Phase (1869-1876) but is more likely to date from the years of Peak Bustle, i.e. 1880s and probably 1885-89,  though bustles survived into the '90s.

The Freudian workings of my mind made me read that as "bust-ology" and I wondered for a glorious (albeit tragically brief) moment if it were possible to use the dimensions of the 19th century female bust to accurately date a photograph.

 

More research needed I think.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Edwardian]

5 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

The Freudian workings of my mind made me read that as "bust-ology" and I wondered for a glorious (albeit tragically brief) moment if it were possible to use the dimensions of the 19th century female to accurately date a photograph.

 

More research needed I think.

 

You should apply for a grant for field research, available if elected to the Benny Hill Chair of Comparative Bustology.

 

But the bustle was a phenomenon of two concentrated bursts, as I understand it; 1869-1876 and 1881-1889, with Extreme or Peak Bustle from c.1885.  So they are a legitimate aid to dating Victorian photographs where present.

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

OK.  We could go for a West Runtonesque station, on the basis that the money had run out.  

 

As suggested, I could insert an extra storey into the Glebe Hotel design?

 

 

That really does look ready to sink into the sands...

 

Just a bit more fancy woodwork needed to support the second floor balcony?

 

32 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Beg pardon, it is, indeed, M&GN. It's their standard covered wagon design. 16' body and 9'6" w/b, built between 1879 and 1883, so I assume they were built by the Eastern & Midland.

 

They were apparently through-piped and some dual-braked, so they got about a bit.  Apparently all of them survived to be divided between the LMS and LNER in 1928.

 

 

 

Some of this information tallies with P. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 2, but it's clear that you know more than he does - what is the source of your information? At 45 vehicles, they apparently account for nearly 12% of the M&GN's goods stock at end of 1922; cattle wagons made up 35%; most unusual proportions. The small size of the M&GN goods fleet remains an enigma to me.

 

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

But the bustle was a phenomenon of two concentrated bursts, as I understand it; 1869-1876 and 1881-1889, with Extreme or Peak Bustle from c.1885.  So they are a legitimate aid to dating Victorian photographs where present.

 

 

But remember that the observation of a particular style only provides a terminus post quem; fashions are much like goods wagon liveries - they don't change overnight whatever the official works photo/fashion plate suggests. That lady at Dover looks on the stout and elderly side to me; she could well be persisting with a slightly out-of-date fashion. This could even be an example of a first burst bustle surviving into the peak bustle period. 

[Andy Hayter]

19 hours ago, Killian keane said:

Mine had those desks until 2012, albeit nailed shut,  anyway heres something railway related,  admiralty pier,  Dover in the 1860s/70s with a small scotchman in charge of a short rake of delightful birdcage stock

I have tried and failed to find useful info on the Maid of Kent paddle steamer.  Came into service in the early 1860s and was part of the SER/LCDR fight for the French mail service,  I cannot however find a scrapping or withdrawal date.  My bool on cross channel ferries starts later and only lists the SR turbine Maid of Kent (1925) and not her earlier incarnation.

[Nearholmer]

I thought Peak Bustle was when my good lady, her sister, and their mother were jointly preparing Christmas Dinner in our not-big kitchen.

[Edwardian]

10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That really does look ready to sink into the sands...

 

Just a bit more fancy woodwork needed to support the second floor balcony?

 

Agreed - only a rough mock-up

 

Quote

 

Some of this information tallies with P. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 2, but it's clear that you know more than he does - what is the source of your information? At 45 vehicles, they apparently account for nearly 12% of the M&GN's goods stock at end of 1922; cattle wagons made up 35%; most unusual proportions. The small size of the M&GN goods fleet remains an enigma to me.

 

 

Nigel Digby, A Guide to the Midland & Gt. Northern Joint Railway, 1993.

 

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But remember that the observation of a particular style only provides a terminus post quem; fashions are much like goods wagon liveries - they don't change overnight whatever the official works photo/fashion plate suggests. That lady at Dover looks on the stout and elderly side to me; she could well be persisting with a slightly out-of-date fashion. This could even be an example of a first burst bustle surviving into the peak bustle period. 

 

Hence the comment that they lasted into the 1890s.  It also seems reasonable to suppose that any clean break between the appearance of early and late bustles was shorter than the period quoted, which represents when they were 'in' in fashionable circles.

 

 

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Not on unstable ground, but one of the best hotel/station conjunctions, I think, even today.

 

I can give you something of a date range for this photograph.

 

The MGN wagon, for so it is, was grounded there in 1909 to be used as a store and tariff shed. However, the running-in board appears to be a wooden one, so the scene is set prior to its replacement with one of the home-made concrete signs in 1922.

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Argos said:

Or you could always go for a hotel with its own railway:

If you're going down that route, there's Gleneagles, which had it's own branch, but there was never a passenger service, it was only for supplies to the hotel.

 

Jim

[Buhar]

Better still is the G&SWR's Turnberry Hotel and golf course served by the Maidens and Dunure Light Railway which had a covered walkway between the hotel and station.  The less said about later ownership the better.