David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Can anyone advise what rivet patten the Bachmann Fairburn tank has or if they have ever produced the Brighton built version that I understand was different. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Can anyone advise what rivet patten the Bachmann Fairburn tank has ..... ----> I think that is the Brighton pattern Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 David, as the horse dentist has already said ( ), the first production run of early and late crest Fairburns has the Brighton rivet pattern. The most recent variant of the model are of the Derby batch, recognisable by having only three vertical lines of rivets on the top portion of the tankside. Brightons have six vertical lines along the same section. The Brighton locos were produced in three batches; 42096-106 (1950), 42066-78 (1950) and 42079-95 (1951). The info is taken from Essery and Jenkinsons Illustrated history, Vol. 5. Hope this helps. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 David, as the horse dentist has already said ( ), the first production run of early and late crest Fairburns has the Brighton rivet pattern. The most recent variant of the model are of the Derby batch, recognisable by having only three vertical lines of rivets on the top portion of the tankside. Brightons have six vertical lines along the same section. The Brighton locos were produced in three batches; 42096-106 (1950), 42066-78 (1950) and 42079-95 (1951). The info is taken from Essery and Jenkinsons Illustrated history, Vol. 5. Hope this helps. Dave. I looked into this about a year ago, and came to the conclusion that it was a bit more complex than a simple Brighton/Derby split might suggest, and that tanks were swapped around at works visits. IIRC there are three patterns of rivets along the bottom of the tanks, of which Bachmann have done two so far. I'll have a look at pictures later to see if I can resurrect my thought processes of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 A quick bit of research: I have before me: Bachmann model of 42073, showing six vertical lines of rivets and three horizontal lines, the lowest of which does a diagonal dive approximately level with the front spectacle plate. Prototype built Brighton 1950. Bachmann model of 42691, showing three vertical lines of rivets in top third of tank, two in centre and lower thirds, and three horizontal lines, lowest of which is straight and level with the bottom of the tank. Prototype built Derby 1945. Photo of 42135, rivets identical to model 42073, but prototype built Derby 1950. Photo of 2245, rivets identical to model 42691, prototype built Derby 1946. I'll see if I can find photos of each LMS/BR lot in my collection - I suspect the change in rivet pattern is more associated with a date than where built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Results of the full research: I have identified four different rivet patterns on the side tanks, but contrary to my previous faulty recollection, I can find no evidence of the different types being swapped at works visits. The types are: 1) What has been called the "Brighton" pattern, with 6 vertical lines of rivets extending the full depth of the tank. The bottom row of horizontal rivets starts about halfway down the bottom third of the tank side, then does a zig-zag around the trailing driver to end up at the bottom of the tank side. This is the pattern on Bachmann's 32-877 (42073), and is correct for all locos built at Brighton (42066-42106) PLUS all locos built at Derby from March 1949 on (42050-42065, 42107-42146). Edited 8/3/10 to add 42050 batch. 2) What has been called the "Derby" pattern, with 3/2/2 vertical lines of rivets in the top, centre and bottom thirds of the tank side respectively. The bottom row of horizontal rivets follows the curve of the running plate/tank bottom edge. This is the pattern on Bachmann's 32-878 (42691). 3) Not modelled by Bachmann - vertical rivets as "Derby"; bottom row of horizontal rivets as "Brighton", except that the first dozen or so are very slightly higher. All locos carrying patterns 2) and 3) were built at Derby before March 1949, but I can find no logic in which locos carried which pattern - all lot numbers contain a mixture. 4) Not modelled by Bachmann - as pattern 2), but the bottom row of rivets starts approximately in line with the front spectacle plate. I can only find one photo of a loco in this condition - LMS 2679 in 1947. Perhaps an experiment in partially-welded tanks that didn't work out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Andrew Please have a look at Arthur K's photo of 42224 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/6933-br-london-midland-region-1950s-80s/page__pid__96648__st__100entry96648 I take it that this style is what you refer to as Type 3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Andrew Please have a look at Arthur K's photo of 42224 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/6933-br-london-midland-region-1950s-80s/page__pid__96648__st__100entry96648 I take it that this style is what you refer to as Type 3? Yes. From the photos I can find, it appears in about equal numbers with Bachmann's modelled Derby style. I've added 42224 to my data table - can anyone find any more Fairburn photos to fill in more gaps? Locos running in West Yorkshire in 1967 not required!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Andrew - a few more for your collection. Arthur's also got 42063 at Arnside on page 1 (one of the Brighton types), three photos of 42096 on page 2 at Preston (same type I think), whilst page 5 has 42295 on Blackpool Central shed (tank sides are not too clear unfortunately). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Andrew - a few more for your collection. Arthur's also got 42063 at Arnside on page 1 (one of the Brighton types), three photos of 42096 on page 2 at Preston (same type I think), whilst page 5 has 42295 on Blackpool Central shed (tank sides are not too clear unfortunately). First two duly added. I would say 42295 is type 2, but not clear enough to be sure - the lining sometimes looks like the row of rivets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 I managed to pick up a Bachmann Fairburn at Ally Pally for £45 at the weekend that will hopefully become 42253 the rivet patten seems the same as the photo below which has my Dad as fireman (the one with the billycan) although the Bachman model seems to miss the what seeps like a long step on the bunker, Is there any other variations I should look out for? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Here's a full on Brighton version: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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