Can ELECTROFROG points be made into INSULFROG points?

[MGR Hooper!]

I know this is probably a stupid question, but I have had no issue with insulfrog points. I am most happy with their ease and also performance. If I am not mistaken electrofrog points need a certain amount of wiring done. It's not that I am against a bit of soldering I just personally feel that insulfrog points are more than enough for my operations.

 

So can electrofrog points be made into insulfrog points?

 

I've always wanted points with concrete sleepers, but you only get electrofrog ones.

 

Are they ease to convert or will just sanding down the wooden texture and painting them grey be sufficient?

[Chimer]

You don't have to do any additional wiring on electrofrog points.  I haven't (though I will probably follow regular advice and do so in future).  What you almost certainly do have to do is use a few (or maybe a lot) of insulated rail joiners (IRJs) on the rails leading away from the frogs to stop electricity arriving at the frogs from that direction and causing short circuits.  Apart from that, they will work straight out of the box exactly as insulfrog points do.

 

If you put a track plan on here, lots of people will happily tell you where to put your IRJs, so to speak .......

 

Cheers, Chris

[MGR Hooper!]

Thanks... I will.

[MGR Hooper!]

A very crude representation. Not to scale. My plan isn't even going to be to scale due to the lack of space... But just to give you an idea.

 

[BlackRat]

You could basically draw a line Straight down the middle, from top to bottom and insulate each side of the divide with a feed each side. (plus the odd additional feed for the sidings).

 

Electro frog points aren't tricky at all, you just need to remember to insulate where you have facing points on different feeds.

 

Yup an over simplification, but it's not at all tricky.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...So can electrofrog points be made into insulfrog points?

 

I've always wanted points with concrete sleepers, but you only get electrofrog ones.

 

Are they ease to convert or will just sanding down the wooden texture and painting them grey be sufficient?

 Your proposals give a choice between doing a whole lot of cosmetic messing around to try and make moulded timbers look like concrete, or doing a little extra work (wiring in feeds to the track, insulating rail joiners) to accomodate the live crossing points with the sleeper appearance you want.

 

For simplicity fit IRJ's on the short rails from the crossings of all the points. A positive of this arrangement is that it is not usually in the operating plan to leave locos standing on points, where they can bridge the insulating break and potentially create a short.

[John Tomlinson]

You don't have to do any additional wiring on electrofrog points.  I haven't (though I will probably follow regular advice and do so in future).  What you almost certainly do have to do is use a few (or maybe a lot) of insulated rail joiners (IRJs) on the rails leading away from the frogs to stop electricity arriving at the frogs from that direction and causing short circuits.  Apart from that, they will work straight out of the box exactly as insulfrog points do.

 

If you put a track plan on here, lots of people will happily tell you where to put your IRJs, so to speak .......

 

Cheers, Chris

Completely agree. I read the question yesterday but was reluctant to post as a few months ago I had a verbal punch-up on here with some guy who insisted that my layout would barely work at all, and be very unreliable if I didn't do a load of supplementary wiring. Total twaddle, which I say with of over a decade of very reliable running, and as you say all you need is a few IRJ's in the right place.

 

John.

[johnb]

You could basically draw a line Straight down the middle, from top to bottom and insulate each side of the divide with a feed each side. (plus the odd additional feed for the sidings).

 

Electro frog points aren't tricky at all, you just need to remember to insulate where you have facing points on different feeds.

 

Yup an over simplification, but it's not at all tricky.

Fully agree with this, it's basic and it works and works well. It's how I wired my DC layouts for years.

 

John

[Chimer]

Even less to scale ...

 

 

I've assumed this is a double track roundy roundy with a marshalling yard (though it doesn't really matter if it isn't), and you'll have 3 track sections, 1 for each main line and one for the yard.  Feeds shown by arrows, IRJ positions by red lines (only needed on frog rails, so only one for each red line).  The 2 red feeds are not separate sections.  The IRJ on the upper main line is not needed if it isn't a roundy-roundy.  I've put in a crossover 'cos they always need two IRJs (but obviously in that case they'd be needed to separate the sections even if you were using insulfrogs).

 

Hope this helps - other solutions are available!

 

Edit - sorry, needs another red feed on the yard side of the section break bottom left!!

 

Chris

[Suzie]

If you operate the points at both ends of each loop together you don't need to do anything different at all for the yard bit - just feed all three tracks on the right.

 

The leftmost point will need a feed to the left and probably insulated joiners on all four of the rails at the frog end (depending on how you have your controllers configured), but that will be the only complication and is probably not much different to the dead frog wiring anyway.

[298]

Considering there are dedicated shows for EM, P4 and other specialist scales, D&E era layouts, and those modelled on overseas countries, why not have a show full of layouts that have been wired up on a Friday afternoon...? By which I mean those with trackwork that has been thrown down in order to get something running quickly and relies on "just a bit of cleaning every now and then" even though it's spent 20 years in a damp shed and runs reliably on analogue because that funny DCC only causes random shorts...

[Sasquatch]

Considering there are dedicated shows for EM, P4 and other specialist scales, D&E era layouts, and those modelled on overseas countries, why not have a show full of layouts that have been wired up on a Friday afternoon...? By which I mean those with trackwork that has been thrown down in order to get something running quickly and relies on "just a bit of cleaning every now and then" even though it's spent 20 years in a damp shed and runs reliably on analogue because that funny DCC only causes random shorts...

 

"Shhhhh"

You don't know how close you are to the truth. Less wiring means less chance of faults developing.

At this years show my layout developed a mysterious wiring fault both Sat. & Sun. afternoons. I think it was due to the sun coming out and warming the rails which must have expanded causing the electrical break across the base board joint to close up. Electrofrog isolation isn't fail save!

 

The wiring Black Rat has suggested works very well, I can vouch for this. Chimers wiring diagram is ok but I would suggest having the isolation half way along each passing loop thus allowing two locomotives to occupy each loop (analogue) much more operating potential!

 

Shaun

[Crewlisle]

You don't have to do any additional wiring on electrofrog points.  I haven't (though I will probably follow regular advice and do so in future).  What you almost certainly do have to do is use a few (or maybe a lot) of insulated rail joiners (IRJs) on the rails leading away from the frogs to stop electricity arriving at the frogs from that direction and causing short circuits.  Apart from that, they will work straight out of the box exactly as insulfrog points do.

 

If you put a track plan on here, lots of people will happily tell you where to put your IRJs, so to speak .......

 

Cheers, Chris

 

Completely agree. I read the question yesterday but was reluctant to post as a few months ago I had a verbal punch-up on here with some guy who insisted that my layout would barely work at all, and be very unreliable if I didn't do a load of supplementary wiring. Total twaddle, which I say with of over a decade of very reliable running, and as you say all you need is a few IRJ's in the right place.

 

John.

 

Well said!  I have had numerous arguments with modellers on various forums about just using Peco Electrofrog points straight out of the box without resorting to additional expense/wiring by fitting 'frog juicers' or other polarity switches.   Some modellers think I am a heretic for not doing this & should be burnt at the stake!

 

My DCC 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' has 32 Peco Electrofrog points, most of which are operated by Peco solenoid point motors & the only polarity switch on the layout is for my live diamond.  It has been on the exhibition circuit for over 30 years & the number of point failures I have had can be counted on one hand & none were really serious. 

[Chimer]

Yes, half way along could be better operationally as Shaun says - I guess I was just following the usual mantra of "stick the IRJs on the frog rails" but the breaks can of course be anywhere between where I've shown them and the next trailing point, as long as they're on the rail coming from the frog.

[Roger Sunderland]

Well said!  I have had numerous arguments with modellers on various forums about just using Peco Electrofrog points straight out of the box without resorting to additional expense/wiring by fitting 'frog juicers' or other polarity switches.   Some modellers think I am a heretic for not doing this & should be burnt at the stake!

 

My DCC 00 gauge layout 'Crewlisle' has 32 Peco Electrofrog points, most of which are operated by Peco solenoid point motors & the only polarity switch on the layout is for my live diamond.  It has been on the exhibition circuit for over 30 years & the number of point failures I have had can be counted on one hand & none were really serious.

 

Hear hear, well said, I tire of ,so called, "electrical experts" who have to modify/fiddle with Peco electro frog points. They do work perfectly well out of the box. They self isolate just the same as insulfrog. All you have to remember is to feed only from the toe end and isolate the frogs