Skinnylinny Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) So by sheer good fortune (mainly due to the seller having no idea what it is!), I appear to have won a Bing Table Railway loco for £6 on eBay. As I understand it, this system was about the first model railway system commercially produced at what is now recognised as 00 scale, using 16mm gauge track (well, 5/8") and a scale of approx. 4mm:1 foot. The locos (2-4-0 tank and tender locos) were available in clockwork or 3-rail electric, running on 6V. I have no experience with this particular brand, but as an electronic engineer by trade, I have strong hopes of being able to restore the loco to running condition, but am wondering if the (very coarse!) wheels would run on Dublo tinplate track, and if anyone has any knowledge and/or experience with these models. I would like to ideally have it running on a length of straight track on a shelf as a curiosity, as I suspect the wheels are unlikely to be compatible with modern Peco pointwork! Edited July 1, 2016 by Skinnylinny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Have a look here,the track looks very similar to HD 3 rail. www.youtube.com/watch?v=AONqtRFBhtE Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Carne Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Bing Table Railway locos and rolling stock will run on plain H/D 3rail track,but not through points or crossings. It will run very happily on Trix Twin bakerlite track and points,as the design engineer at Bing who designed the Table Railway system went on to design the original Trix Twin,so the wheel and track standards and track geometry are the same for all practical purposes,although,if running Table Railway items on a Trix Twin layout,you cannot run 2 trains on the same track. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Thanks, Mark. That would certainly be much easier to obtain than original Bing 3-rail track, and knowing that the wheel standards are similar is very useful. I assume from your comments that both wheels of the Bing stock are electrically connected, where on the Trix Twin system only one wheelset was used per train (return being via the centre rail)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted July 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2016 I inherited a clockwork LMS 2-4-0T and an LNER one with a couple of coaches (4wh) and a few open wagons - I think - plus some tinplate track, from my Dad in the 1950s. Neither of us regarded them as collectable, just old-fashioned toys, so they didn't survive once I started a Hornby Dublo three-rail layout. But then my original Dinkys and Matchbox, series 1, cars and trucks were just toys. It's only with the arrival of the Yesteryear range that collecting came into fashion, as an end in itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Congratulations! (Shucks missed it!) There is a book on the Bing system - I'll look for the title. They are AC universal motors like Trix, but reversal is through a loco mounted switch IIRC - there is a special rail I think. Being made in Germany, I assume the gauge is 16mm, not that the difference from 5/8" is great. The story runs that these are to blame for the birth 00. They were designed as 'Half 0', but to the German loading gauge (there are German and American versions) , so they looked overscale, to which Henry Greenly (who believed in overscale bodies anyway) replied that they were to 4mm scale. The rest is history.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Greenly http://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/info/Category:Bing_Table_Railway There's another Bing locomotive here (MR clockwork), but not at £6 I'm afraid... (The seller has some other items as well.) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bing-00-Table-Railway-Scarce-Midland-Railway-C-W-Tank-Locomotive-Good-Condtn-/391493313185?hash=item5b26d1e2a1:g:DWEAAOSwM4xXcB-L EDIT Bing's Table Railway : A History of Small Gauge Trains from 1900 to 1935 by Jeff Carpenter Diva Publishing 1996 ISBN 1900897008 Edited July 2, 2016 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 They are AC universal motors like Trix, but reversal is through a loco mounted switch IIRC - there is a special rail I think. Being made in Germany, I assume the gauge is 16mm, not that the difference from 5/8" is great. That's interesting - I've not had much experience with AC motors. How does one control the speed of an AC motor? Or is it just the case that what would be a permanent magnet in a DC motor is a field winding, in which case my understanding is that the motor would also run on DC... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 That's interesting - I've not had much experience with AC motors. How does one control the speed of an AC motor? Or is it just the case that what would be a permanent magnet in a DC motor is a field winding, in which case my understanding is that the motor would also run on DC... I believe, based on a recent reading of "The Model Railway Encyclopedia" by Earnest F Carter and published in about 1950, that this is correct, as he notes that most AC motors of the time would work happily on DC, but not vice versa. Presumably the mechanical reverser would still be necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Speed control is by varying the voltage, the same as with a DC permanent magnet motor. The problem is reversing the motor, since the magnetic flux is reversed in both the field winding and the armature, so the it revolves in the same direction whatever the polarity - hence it will run on AC or DC. To change direction, either the field (e.g.Märklin) or the armature (e.g.Trix Twin) must be reversed. This requires a locomotive mounted switch or complicated relay mechanism. It usually results in a hit and miss as to the direction the locomotive will run... The motors can be converted to DC operation and positive reversal by feeding the field* winding through a bridge rectifier. (Märklin use a double wound field coil and only require two diodes). Type 1N4007 are suitable and cheap. * It is usually easier to arrange the reversal of the field rather than the armature, though either method will work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Well, the loco arrived, and, bar a little rubbing to the paintwork (mostly around the black edging, so should be easy enough to touch in with some Satin Black paint) looks to be in pretty good nick. A few slight bends around the edge of the running plate, but nothing that can't be solved with some rubber-tipped pliers, and two missing screws for holding on the body to the chassis. Would these be metric screws by this point in Bavaria? Out of curiosity, I hooked it up to the bench power supply at my work, and it rattled straight into life. A few minutes cleaning out the assorted fluff and hair from the wheels, and a sparing drop of oil (plus some contact cleaner on the motor brushes) and the loco ran very nicely for such a grand old lady! Proper, built-to-last engineering - they don't make 'em like they used to! I have been offered some Trix Twin track at the model railway club for tonight, so the plan is to grab some crocodile clip wires to connect to the test track, and see how she runs the correct way up! With the lettering being L&NER rather than LNER, I am wondering if this dates this particular model? Edited July 7, 2016 by Skinnylinny 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Doubtless others more qualified than me will be able to advise more reliably, but although I would expect the screws to be a metric thread I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be the modern ISO Metric variety. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglasspool3 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Hi i have just bought one of these but somebody has cut the wires off so i was wondering if any body knew how they are meant to go Cheers damon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Hi i have just bought one of these but somebody has cut the wires off so i was wondering if any body knew how they are meant to go Cheers damon Maybe this helps: Regards Fred Edited December 16, 2018 by sncf231e 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) The YouTube link shows the American version. More or less the same, but without lettering and plus cowcatcher. 'Kuh Fänger'. somehow sounds better! Courageous to use the original electrics! Speeds:- Fast, Very Fast and Flies off the track! Edited December 16, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 The YouTube link shows the American version. More or less the same, but without lettering and plus cowcatcher. 'Kuh Fänger'. somehow sounds better! Courageous to use the original electrics! Speeds:- Fast, Very Fast and Flies off the track! The nicest about the American version I think is the observation end: And indeed I am courageous (or stupid) when playing trains; here is a run with my high voltage Märklin: I do not have any cats or dogs, so it is save Regards Fred 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) It's safe (sort of) as long as the phase feeds the lamps and the track is connected to the neutral. The other way round is deadly. In any case, it is advisable to swtich off before touching anything. Ideally it should be fed through an isolating transformer and laid on an insulating surface (e.g. a rubber mat). Edited December 16, 2018 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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