Louisville and Nashville 'The Homecoming".

[TrevorP1]

One of my - far too many - railway interests are the American EMD E & F units. This probably stems from decades ago, gazing at the 'Trancontinental' items in the Tri-ang catalogue. However, it can't be denied they are a classic design. I have always liked the idea of building a diorama of a train hauled by one of these machines pausing at a tiny wayside station, possibly with an old pick-up parked nearby.  Hold this thought.

 

I also have an interest in reading factual accounts of WW2 written by veterans or historians, also factual movies. Some months ago I purchased Steven Speiberg's 'The Pacific' which follows three American marines serving in the Pacific islands. This was of interest because my Father faced the same enemy, as indeed did Spielberg's. Part 10 of the series deals with the homecoming of those fortunate enough and there, as I watched, was the scene I wanted to model...

 

A train bearing homecoming personnel rolls into a wayside station hauled by what appears to be an EMD unit. A Chevrolet pick-up is waiting, driven by the father of one of the men, Romus Burgin. The young man steps down from the train and is embraced by his father...

 

Research has revealed that Spielberg found a suitable locomotive and train in Australia and had it painted in the livery of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad. 10/10 for effort I'd say! Presumably they found or built a replica of the tiny station at Jewett but here accuracy begins to fade. Burgin did indeed come from Jewett but Jewett is in Texas and in his book he states that although the army paid the train fares he wanted to get home much quicker and paid for a flight. No matter, the episode is very poignant and though provoking on many levels.

 

So there is my project, to recreate this scene as a diorama. It will be a very 'slow burner' in between many other tasks, including my British project, but it has to be done. For the time being I'm collecting information, photos etc, and today I ordered a book from America.

 

If there is anyone with any information or information that might help I'd be very appreciative. There are a number of E & F units apparently available but I've no idea of the quality of the various manufacturers or whether it is best to buy from America or source through a British dealer. Coaches, sorry 'cars' I have no idea at all! I imagine building the depot itself, maybe the track, goodness knows about the Chevvy pick-up or the figures required... It will be HO scale.

 

There, I told the world now, so I've got to do it!

[Oldddudders]

Have you ever watched a film called 'Bad Day at Black Rock'? Ok, so it starts with Black Widow F units, not Es (and thus undermines the film's time frame, the livery was not about in the year it is supposed to be set) but the ethos of the dramatic film is about a man who has come to a small town to present a war medal to his former comrade in arms, only to discover the chap has been done in by rednecks. And, yes, the film ends (like 'High Noon') with a train leaving town. Not worth not watching - and I don't watch films!

 

I started with Life-Like Proto 2000 E-units a number of years back. Chinese-made, so detailed and Ok by 2017 standards. I fitted them with sound, also decoders of their time. Walthers now owns that line. I have a number of Broadway Limited E-units, E3, E6, E7, E8, and they are a bit more advanced, have factory sound. If you can pick up a secondhand example, then dip your toe, IMHO. 

[Jim Martin]

Assuming that you're looking at 1945 or 1946, I don't think that the L&N had all that many units that you could actually choose from. The road didn't buy its first diesel until 1939 and had very few when the USA entered the war, after which road units were very hard to acquire. According to the roster at https://www.thedieselshop.us/L&Nroster.HTML, the only EMD cab units - almost the only road units of any kind, in fact - in service in 1946 were 16 E6As (numbered 450A/B to 457A/B: it was quite common on many roads at that time for A units to have "B" suffixes to their numbers) and 8 E7As (458A/B to 461A/B)

 

Jim

[TrevorP1]

Thanks Ian and Jim for your comments. I'll certainly look that film up.

 

I thought that the L & N only had a few road units in 1946 but it's good to have that confirmed. The engine in the film seems to be masquerading as an F unit but I like the idea of on E6 with the sloping front. I'll keep my eyes open and see what's about model wise.

Edited July 1, 2017 by TrevorP1

[Adrian Wintle]

Rolling stock could have been heavyweight coaches or Pullman cars. It may also have included Pullman troop sleepers if it was a military train. A diesel-powered train may also have had lightweight (streamlined) stock as passenger diesels were typically originally bought for and assigned to particular trains.

 

That early you would have been looking at multiple locos - A-A or A-B sets (or more, depending on what they were) and were probably bought for a specific service.

I don't have L&N references, but I do have Southern ones. In 1945 the Southern had:

 

3 E6As for use on the Southerner, an all-lightweight train between New York and New Orleans. I have a photo of it in 1949 with a single loco and 8 stainless lightweight coaches. Pullman built what appear to be three sets of lightweight stock for the Southerner in 1941 each consisting of a Baggage Dormitory, a Divided Coach*, a Diner, two Coaches, a Coach owner by the PRR, and an Observation Tavern Lounge.

 

2 E6A/B sets for use on the Tennessean (which ran between Washington and Memphis). From a photo in 1947 it had heavyweight stock (in Pullman green) with a baggage car, an RPO, a combine, and then coaches or sleepers, Quite why it has heavyweight stock is something of a mystery since Pullman built three sets of lightweight stock for the Tennessean in 1941 each consisting of two Baggage Mail (4 built) or Baggage Mail Storage (two built), a Baggage Dormitory Coach, three Coaches, a Diner (only two built, so one set must have used a heavyweight), a Divided Coach, and an Observation Tavern Lounge. 

 

2 E6A/B sets for use on the Crescent (also NY to NO). From a photo in 1947 it had heavyweight stock with an RPO, a combine, and then coaches or sleepers.

 

2 DL109/110** sets for use on the CNO&TP's Ponce de Leon (Chicago to Jacksonville, FL, CNO&TP power between Cincinnati and Chattanooga). From a photo in 1946 this looks to have been an all-heavyweight train led by an RPO and at least one baggage car.

 

1 DL109/110 set for use on the Queen & Crescent which also seems to have been an all-heavyweight train.

 

The only other streamlined units were FT A and B units, originally acquired in A-B-B-A sets, burt they were quickly being mixed and matched. I don't believe they were used in passenger service, although six of the B-units were equipped with steam generators.

 

The Southern acquired twelve E7As in 1946.

 

*I believe Divided Coaches existed because of the racial segregation that was in force at the time.

** Yes, these are Alcos, not EMDs, but they are streamlined passenger units.

 

What this does mean is that a diesel train diorama is going to be relatively long even if you only show up to the first passenger car.

 

I hope this gives you some ideas. I had the Southern books to hand. With a bit more time I could find information for a few other roads (PRR and UP for sure).

 

Adrian

[asmay2002]

Have you ever watched a film called 'Bad Day at Black Rock'? Ok, so it starts with Black Widow F units, not Es (and thus undermines the film's time frame, the livery was not about in the year it is supposed to be set) but the ethos of the dramatic film is about a man who has come to a small town to present a war medal to his former comrade in arms, only to discover the chap has been done in by rednecks. And, yes, the film ends (like 'High Noon') with a train leaving town. Not worth not watching - and I don't watch films!

Not quite right.  He is there to present the medal to the father of the Japanese-American soldier who saved his life in combat by sacrificing his own only to discover that the locals have done him in just for being Japanese.  

Edited July 1, 2017 by asmay2002

[pH]

I have a book “Hawaiian Railway Album WWII Photographs” The text is written by Gale Trieber, but it is a photo album, with most of the photographs taken by Victor Norton, who was stationed in Honolulu with the US Navy during WW2. The final chapter describes Norton’s journey home to New York state after the war, with some pictures taken on the way.

 

Norton travelled by ship to San Francisco, then by troop train starting in Richmond, California, across the Bay from San Francisco. The train went by ATSF to Chicago, by PRR to New York City, finally by LIRR to the Naval Separation Center at Lido Beach on Long Island. From the photos Norton took on the journey, Trieber says the makeup of the train was “nine troop sleepers, two troop diners and three or four open section Pullman sleepers”. There are two pictures of the train, plus one of another similar troop train.

 

All the naval servicemen on the train went to the Naval Separation Center then, after processing and discharge, travelled individually to their home towns on regular passenger trains. I don’t know if the US Army handled things differently e.g. discharging soldiers before sending them directly home on troop trains. Somehow I think not – they would almost certainly have to be under military discipline on such trains. So I do not think individual servicemen would arrive at their home towns on a troop train. (Long way of saying I don’t think you need to look for troop sleepers, diners or kitchen cars for your train.)       

[TrevorP1]

Rolling stock could have been heavyweight coaches or Pullman cars. It may also have included Pullman troop sleepers if it was a military train. A diesel-powered train may also have had lightweight (streamlined) stock as passenger diesels were typically originally bought for and assigned to particular trains.

 

That early you would have been looking at multiple locos - A-A or A-B sets (or more, depending on what they were) and were probably bought for a specific service.

I don't have L&N references, but I do have Southern ones. In 1945 the Southern had:

 

3 E6As for use on the Southerner, an all-lightweight train between New York and New Orleans. I have a photo of it in 1949 with a single loco and 8 stainless lightweight coaches. Pullman built what appear to be three sets of lightweight stock for the Southerner in 1941 each consisting of a Baggage Dormitory, a Divided Coach*, a Diner, two Coaches, a Coach owner by the PRR, and an Observation Tavern Lounge.

 

2 E6A/B sets for use on the Tennessean (which ran between Washington and Memphis). From a photo in 1947 it had heavyweight stock (in Pullman green) with a baggage car, an RPO, a combine, and then coaches or sleepers, Quite why it has heavyweight stock is something of a mystery since Pullman built three sets of lightweight stock for the Tennessean in 1941 each consisting of two Baggage Mail (4 built) or Baggage Mail Storage (two built), a Baggage Dormitory Coach, three Coaches, a Diner (only two built, so one set must have used a heavyweight), a Divided Coach, and an Observation Tavern Lounge. 

 

2 E6A/B sets for use on the Crescent (also NY to NO). From a photo in 1947 it had heavyweight stock with an RPO, a combine, and then coaches or sleepers.

 

2 DL109/110** sets for use on the CNO&TP's Ponce de Leon (Chicago to Jacksonville, FL, CNO&TP power between Cincinnati and Chattanooga). From a photo in 1946 this looks to have been an all-heavyweight train led by an RPO and at least one baggage car.

 

1 DL109/110 set for use on the Queen & Crescent which also seems to have been an all-heavyweight train.

 

The only other streamlined units were FT A and B units, originally acquired in A-B-B-A sets, burt they were quickly being mixed and matched. I don't believe they were used in passenger service, although six of the B-units were equipped with steam generators.

 

The Southern acquired twelve E7As in 1946.

 

*I believe Divided Coaches existed because of the racial segregation that was in force at the time.

** Yes, these are Alcos, not EMDs, but they are streamlined passenger units.

 

What this does mean is that a diesel train diorama is going to be relatively long even if you only show up to the first passenger car.

 

I hope this gives you some ideas. I had the Southern books to hand. With a bit more time I could find information for a few other roads (PRR and UP for sure).

 

Adrian

 

 

Thank you for that Adrain. Lots of interest there. I was thinking of 1946 as a date. I will have to make up my mind as to whether to model the actual film set or produce a more accurate scene based on the film. However, I like the L & N livery of that period so I think I'm set on that. 

[TrevorP1]

I have a book “Hawaiian Railway Album WWII Photographs” The text is written by Gale Trieber, but it is a photo album, with most of the photographs taken by Victor Norton, who was stationed in Honolulu with the US Navy during WW2. The final chapter describes Norton’s journey home to New York state after the war, with some pictures taken on the way.

 

Norton travelled by ship to San Francisco, then by troop train starting in Richmond, California, across the Bay from San Francisco. The train went by ATSF to Chicago, by PRR to New York City, finally by LIRR to the Naval Separation Center at Lido Beach on Long Island. From the photos Norton took on the journey, Trieber says the makeup of the train was “nine troop sleepers, two troop diners and three or four open section Pullman sleepers”. There are two pictures of the train, plus one of another similar troop train.

 

All the naval servicemen on the train went to the Naval Separation Center then, after processing and discharge, travelled individually to their home towns on regular passenger trains. I don’t know if the US Army handled things differently e.g. discharging soldiers before sending them directly home on troop trains. Somehow I think not – they would almost certainly have to be under military discipline on such trains. So I do not think individual servicemen would arrive at their home towns on a troop train. (Long way of saying I don’t think you need to look for troop sleepers, diners or kitchen cars for your train.)       

 

Thanks pH. Yes I am thinking of a 'normal' train but I will only have space for the first couple of cars.

[doctor quinn]

I will have to make up my mind as to whether to model the actual film set or produce a more accurate scene based on the film.

 

If you were to model the film set then it would need the Australian stand-in loco, from your original post the film crew may have used either an EMD A16C.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/baytram366/14022820173/

 

Or an Alco DL500 "World Locomotive"

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/navarzo21/16452728045

 

Both bear a close resemblance to the US model they were derived from (EMD F7 and Alco FA2 respectively) but are stretched to fit A1A trucks.

 

Do you have a link to the article that mentioned the Aussie loco that was used as I'm now curious to know which one they used.

 

All the best

 

Nick

Edited July 2, 2017 by doctor quinn

[TrevorP1]

If you were to model the film set then it would need the Australian stand-in loco, from your original post the film crew may have used either an EMD A16C.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/baytram366/14022820173/

 

Or an Alco DL500 "World Locomotive"

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/navarzo21/16452728045

 

Both bear a close resemblance to the US model they were derived from (EMD F7 and Alco FA2 respectively) but are stretched to fit A1A trucks.

 

Do you have a link to the article that mentioned the Aussie loco that was used as I'm now curious to know which one they used.

 

All the best

 

Nick

 

Here is link showing the loco on a normal working but in the 'pseudo' L & N livery. In the film it carries full L & N lettering etc.

 

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/263546/

[TrevorP1]

Curious now! Just found a few more.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamrail/sets/72157629268405716/

[Adrian Wintle]

Thank you for that Adrain. Lots of interest there. I was thinking of 1946 as a date. I will have to make up my mind as to whether to model the actual film set or produce a more accurate scene based on the film. However, I like the L & N livery of that period so I think I'm set on that. 

 

L&N didn't have any trains of lightweight cars until 1946 when the Georgian (St Louis to Atlanta) and the Humming Bird (Cincinnati to New Orleans) entered service. It looks like there were 4 sets built (two for each) consisting of two Coaches, a Coach Lounge, a Diner, and a Tavern Lounge, all built by ACF. Presumably they would be bulked out with heavyweight head-end cars (Baggage etc.). This means that any other passenger trains (except those below) would have been heavyweight cars.

 

They did participate in the operation of two other lightweight trains that started operation in 1940, the FEC's Dixie Flagler (Chicago to Miami every third day), and the PRR's South Wind (also Chicago to Miami). The Dixie Flagler had a single set of Budd-built cars consisting of a Baggage Dormitory Coach, a Coach (with Hostess room), a Diner, three Coaches, and an Observation Tavern. The South Wind had a single set of Budd-built cars consisting of a Baggage Dormitory Coach, four Coaches, a Diner, and an Observation Diner Lounge.

 

BTW, the coach information comes from the book From Zephyr to Amtrak by David Randall (Prototype Publications, 1972). Basically it is a railroad by railroad tabulation of the lightweight/streamline services and cars, but it doesn't give any indications of motive power.

 

Adrian

[Adrian Wintle]

Also, from a prototypical accuracy point of view, L&N locos (especially passenger ones) would have been very unlikely to have been seen off L&N lines. The L&N covered an area bounded by Cincinnati, St. Louis, Memphis, New Orleans (via Birmingham and Mobile), Chattahoochee (just west of Tallahassee) and Atlanta.

 

Adrian

[TrevorP1]

Also, from a prototypical accuracy point of view, L&N locos (especially passenger ones) would have been very unlikely to have been seen off L&N lines. The L&N covered an area bounded by Cincinnati, St. Louis, Memphis, New Orleans (via Birmingham and Mobile), Chattahoochee (just west of Tallahassee) and Atlanta.

 

Adrian

 

 

Adrian, thank you for the further information. I have some learning to do before I commit myself but that in itself is enjoyable. I suspected as much that engines wouldn't have strayed too far from their home system.

 

Ian, I found some clips from the film 'Bad Day at Black Rock' on YouTube. That's much the kind of scene but maybe not quite so rugged. I'll look out a full copy to rent if I can.

 

Obviously I have some fundamental decisions to make as to what to depict e.g: 

• A straight copy of the film scene - which was in itself a movie 'cameo' with an L & N train that supposedly came from the west coast, via a small town that wasn't on a direct route, but then stopped at New Orleans and Mobile.
• Make up my own, more accurate, 'might have been'.
• Find a real small depot (is that the right word?) to depict.

To help this along the way I have ordered 'Dixie Lines : The Louisville and Nashville Railroad' from a book shop in Baltimore. 

 

I would like to use an E6a if I can find one, maybe a baggage car, plus a passenger car of a type to be decided. I've identified the pick-up in the scene as a 1937 Chevrolet and found a company called Sylvan who make a kit. The figures needed are a marine in uniform, an older man and a boy of about 12. Much to think of and sort out. I considered 7mm scale for about 10 minutes today (!) but that will be too big and too expensive!  HO it will have to be but at least I can give the loco a run on my British project!

 

Trevor

[doctor quinn]

Curious now! Just found a few more.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamrail/sets/72157629268405716/

Thanks for sharing those,it's a Victorian Railways S class.

 

Nick

[Adrian Wintle]

Adrian, thank you for the further information. I have some learning to do before I commit myself but that in itself is enjoyable. I suspected as much that engines wouldn't have strayed too far from their home system.

 

Trevor

 

As an example, the Dixie Flagler mentioned above was a collaboration of 5 railroads. The Chicago and Eastern Illinois (C&EI), the L&N, the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis (NC&SL), the Atlantic Coast Line (ACL) and the Florida East Coast (FEC). Presumably the motive power would be changed as the train entered the next railroad's territory.

 

Part of the reason for not straying is that the signalling systems differed between railroads so that a 'home' crew was really necessary. In some instances (e.g. the PRR main line to the west) special equipment was also needed (cab signals in the PRR example).

 

Until quite recently it was possible to identify certain railroads just by the signals.

 

It should be possible to find a picturesque small depot somewhere on the L&N territory.

 

I might be inclined to use the Motormax/Fresh Cherries 1940 Ford rather than the Sylvan kit. https://www.walthers.com/fresh-cherries-tm-assembled-1940-ford-pickup

 

Adrian

Edited July 3, 2017 by Adrian Wintle

[Adrian Wintle]

Broadway Limited did a couple of E6As in L&N livery. Sound-equipped and not cheap, if you can find one. http://www.broadway-limited.com/3278emde6alandn452aas-deliveredschemeparagon2sounddcdccho.aspx

 

Bachmann has done 72' heavyweight combines and coaches, still currently available.

https://www.walthers.com/72-heavyweight-combine-w-2-window-door-ready-to-run-painted-unlettered-pullman-green-black

https://www.walthers.com/72-heavyweight-coach-ready-to-run-painted-unlettered-pullman-green-black

 

There don't appear to be any passenger car decals available, though.

 

Adrian

[Northroader]

If you google Louisville and Nashville depots, and images, you can come up with this sort of thing:

[TrevorP1]

Just purchased volume 2 of 'Louisville & Nashville Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment'.  Looks really useful to someone like me still struggling with some of the American terms.

 

https://morningsunbooks.com/collections/digital-reprints/products/louisville-nashville-color-guide-to-freight-and-passenger-equipment-volume-2-digital-reprint

 

 

[TrevorP1]

The postman must be curious this week because two parcels from America have arrived. One containing a copy of 'Dixie Lines' and another containing a Bachmann E7 in L & N livery.

 

The E7 is just about in my timeframe and was readily available. It is the first HO scale model I have owned and it is interesting to see how it 'fills out' British OO track. Whilst it is pretty much as I expected I am a little disappointed with the side view as there are some dimensional discrepancies with the bogies, leading to too much 'fresh air' around them. Basically the front bogie is tabout 2mm too far back and the bogie wheelbases are on the small side. I guess this is so that it can traverse 'train set' curves but I would have thought Bachmann could do better than this. I'm hoping that with a bit of detailing and weathering this will be less noticeable.

 

On the credit side I purchased it from M B Klien and it arrived very securely packaged in 14 days. Two thirds of this time was spent on a tour of various Parcelforce establishments in the UK which was fascinating to watch on the tracking system!

 

The book contains many superb colour photos many, as to be expected, in the L & N grey period but I have found a location to model - Saint Elmo near Mobile. Hopefully a photo of a book opened on a coffee table for 'research purposes' won't be construed as breach of copyright. Saint Elmo had a short siding which will give me the chance to build a couple of scruffy box cars from kits.