G&SWR Manson Class 275

[844fan]

Hello hello what's all this then what's all *smack* Ow! *clears throat* Pardon me my John Cleese impression was on.

 

Anyway Hello everyone,

I got another interesting and out right look alike of a engine in my eye tonight. I was recently peruseing Mike Morrant's wonderful Collection of locomotive photos and I was looking through the Scottish region when I happened upon this little rather cheeky lookin tank with six small wheels, A short stumpy funnel, A Short Stumpy boiler and a short stumpy dome.

 

Proper Gallery link: https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/Scottish-and-BRSc/Scotland-GSWR/i-HZ9krLv

 

Will add better picture tomorrow darn mobile memory problems.

 

However this little engine is not the little blue hero of Sodor but a small tank engine from the G&SWR. A class 257 and a adorable little one at that. I know only one loco of this railway survives to this day and it is perched quite dizzily over a Jones Goods. But that engine I plan to look into at a later date as a possible Dockyard Tank to take over for my Lochgorm, Pugsy and Kitson tanks (not alone of course but it would be one of the newer stock to my harbor at some point) so that is rather a moot point.

 

No I want to know more about this Glasgowiegn cousin of Thomas and to find more easier to get photos of this class. It is a very interesting thought that a extended side tank with the flat running board and a splasher under said water tanks exsisted and that the Rev. W Awdry could of modeled this for his Thomas' Branch layout.

Edited July 9, 2017 by 844fan

[pH]

That class were known as the 14 class before a renumbering in 1919, after which they were the 275 class. The particular engine in the photo was built in 1914, with the extended side tanks and is shown with its LMS number after Grouping. Earlier batches, without the extended tanks, had been built in 1896 and 1903.

 

In my opinion, a class derived from the 14 class look much nicer. These were the 266 class - the 305 class after the 1919 renumbering. To enable them to handle tighter curves in yards and sidings, the back set of driving wheels were replaces by a bogie, resulting in an 0-4-4-T. Here's one of them, again with its LMS number - https://travelandmixpix.smugmug.com/Rail/Steam/Glasgow/i-3VJnNbw

[844fan]

That class were known as the 14 class before a renumbering in 1919, after which they were the 275 class. The particular engine in the photo was built in 1914, with the extended side tanks and is shown with its LMS number after Grouping. Earlier batches, without the extended tanks, had been built in 1896 and 1903.

 

In my opinion, a class derived from the 14 class look much nicer. These were the 266 class - the 305 class after the 1919 renumbering. To enable them to handle tighter curves in yards and sidings, the back set of driving wheels were replaces by a bogie, resulting in an 0-4-4-T. Here's one of them, again with its LMS number - https://travelandmixpix.smugmug.com/Rail/Steam/Glasgow/i-3VJnNbw

Not a bad class evolution there indeed. I quit like many 04-2 tanks out there and I think that class would be perfect for a few branchline routes I have planned. If you'd like we can talk in PM more about them since this topic is about their progenitor and all.

 

Anyway I've searched Google from Stephenson and back but I can only find the photo of the class 14/275 tanks I posted above. I had the same trouble when I researched the Drummond Paddleboats (T14 and F13 which are both called Paddleboats even though I see only a vauge at best and I quite like Paddle steamer Tugboats.) till just a few weeks ago found a great side shot of the F13 and a friend had modeled a T14 and shared front and sides of it with me. (Of note these are all CG renders he shared as he is a animator who loves locos too. Also most of mine will be models in Trainz till I can get more room to build a proper layout.) Anyone know of any more? I really hate to ask but I'm turning up nothing also while book recommendations are good digital photos are much more appreciated at this time as I still haven't had much luck getting overseas books.

 

Even Abebooks was unable to get me two I ordered and they have a stellar delivery rate. Well I got my Shropshire and Montgomeryshire book so thats fine and they are amazing people to refund me for the others even if they still have a chance of getting to me. So I will try again but not for a while.

 

Hmm one last thing I just had a thought on how common was the concept of extended side tanks? It must of been decently widespread seeing two famous Tank Engines both had them. One blue one red and by that I mean the Rev. W Awdry's Thomas and Sammy the Shunter (Forgive me I cannot remember how to spell the ladies name who created Sammy and if I can I never misspell a author I respect's name and she is in my high regaurds). I plan on modeling Sammy as well in what I like to call RWS style by that I mean Sammy's model will be based off a Parker J1 and then given the mods to make him look like the character in the books realistically. Not Rivet counting here just making Sammy have a counterpart for everyone but I digress. 

[Blandford1969]

Sorry I can't help with the 309 class, but I found 1 negative by JJ Cunningham in my collection of a 275, 16109 at Glasgow St Enoch shed. Hope its useful. It must have gone early as JJ Cunningham was prolific and I have about 600 of his negatives.

 

 

Duncan

 

[844fan]

Sorry I can't help with the 309 class, but I found 1 negative by JJ Cunningham in my collection of a 275, 16109 at Glasgow St Enoch shed. Hope its useful. It must have gone early as JJ Cunningham was prolific and I have about 600 of his negatives.

 

16109 gse jjc.jpg

 

Duncan

Thanks Duncan that is a great find. Seems a few photos were snapped during the big 4 era and being from Glasgow they went to LMS I do hope that they got a proper repaint before scraping. Hmm now if I could just get some measurements on wheel Diameter and running board length I'd be in great shape to make a drawing of the class. 

[Blandford1969]

I am lucky in having a good number of JJ Cunningham's negs. so if you wanted to do a 4-6-4 for example I've several negs and more of things like the Mason 4-6-0's, and of course others.

 

Have you tried the GSWR society they say http://www.gswrr.co.uk/page_3312991.html from £3 they say 'Sold in packs sometimes with a variety of drawings and supporting pictures. Almost all of the major locomotive classes and some other rolling stock available. Mostly to 7mm scale but a few also in 4mm. Priced from £3 upwards depending on how many sheets are involved. E-mail me ian.middleditch@talk21.com with your list of wants and I can quote price and availability'

 

might be worth an email if you have not tried. I have got a neg of a LSWR Paddlebox 4-6-0 which just shows the engine and the very front of the tender in LSWR days if of interest?

[pH]

Hmm now if I could just get some measurements on wheel Diameter and running board length I'd be in great shape to make a drawing of the class. 

 

275 class:

 

- wheel diameter 4ft 71/2 in 

- wheelbase 6ft 8in + 6ft 10in

- length over buffers 29ft 10in

- boiler diameter (outside) 4ft 2in

- boiler pitch 7ft 0in

 

Source - "Locomotives of the Glasgow and South Western Railway" by David L. Smith, David and Charles, 1976. 

[844fan]

275 class:

 

- wheel diameter 4ft 71/2 in 

- wheelbase 6ft 8in + 6ft 10in

- length over buffers 29ft 10in

- boiler diameter (outside) 4ft 2in

- boiler pitch 7ft 0in

 

Source - "Locomotives of the Glasgow and South Western Railway" by David L. Smith, David and Charles, 1976. 

My good man if I ever meet you in person I owe you a drink and possibly lunch as well. Thank you very much I have to say finding information on this class well my tooth extractions have been easier so far. I'll have to check Abebooks for that book there as the G&SWR is indeed a railway with a history that sadly didn't get as much to thrive on in preservation. One loco is all we have left and if I were a Jones Goods I'd be paranoid that it might fall on me.