ECoS and latest TTS decoders

[JJGraphics]

Interesting about the difference with a Prodigy . . .

 

As I mentioned in another post, the only decoders that are troublesome on my layout with my ECoS 50200 are TTS ones in locos which a couple of friends bring to run on my layout occasionally. They apparently perform "OK" with the Hornby controllers on their home layouts.

 

I still have my old Prodigy Advanced and we did try that some while ago and unfortunately the TTS decoders still played up. Other makes of decoder, both sound and non-sound all seem to perform well on my layout and can be reprogrammed with the ECoS without the slightest problem either POM or on the Programming Track.

 

I do understand that they are a cheaper option and for that reason have their attraction, but the TTS decoders I have heard are mostly a pretty poor relation in terms of sound quality to that produced by decoders from the mainstream suppliers, especially with regard to the synchronisation of chuffs with wheel rotation on steam locos. The "driveability" also seems to fall short of what can be achieved with ESU and Zimo decoders even after tweaking.

 

It is a great shame that Hornby have not taken a bit more care with the TTS decoders as the idea of budget sound must appeal to a lot of people and must be a good way to attract more youngsters to the hobby.

 

John

[Izzy]

Interesting about the difference with a Prodigy . . .

 

As I mentioned in another post, the only decoders that are troublesome on my layout with my ECoS 50200 are TTS ones in locos which a couple of friends bring to run on my layout occasionally. They apparently perform "OK" with the Hornby controllers on their home layouts.

 

I still have my old Prodigy Advanced and we did try that some while ago and unfortunately the TTS decoders still played up. Other makes of decoder, both sound and non-sound all seem to perform well on my layout and can be reprogrammed with the ECoS without the slightest problem either POM or on the Programming Track.

 

I do understand that they are a cheaper option and for that reason have their attraction, but the TTS decoders I have heard are mostly a pretty poor relation in terms of sound quality to that produced by decoders from the mainstream suppliers, especially with regard to the synchronisation of chuffs with wheel rotation on steam locos. The "driveability" also seems to fall short of what can be achieved with ESU and Zimo decoders even after tweaking.

 

It is a great shame that Hornby have not taken a bit more care with the TTS decoders as the idea of budget sound must appeal to a lot of people and must be a good way to attract more youngsters to the hobby.

 

John

 

I would agree with all you say about the TTS decoders not being as good as others such as Zimo etc but when you consider their price it is probably not surprising. It is only in recent times that the Zimo MX600 and MX622N have been sold at lower prices while most others still carry a hefty premium, one that I have reluctantly paid for the superior motor control. This applies equally to the CT's I mainly use in 2mm.

 

Having now played about/experimented with using the class 31 TTS diesel decoders in a number of differing locos it is quite surprising how varied the motor control is, ranging from quite good/acceptable to unbeliveable and no good at all. In a Heljan class 15 it's almost as good as a Zimo. This also applies to a Bachmann 08 fitted with a Mashima 1833 ( the original motor failed after just 3 months and I had the 1833 spare). However, it can't control a Bachmann class 24 at all, whatever I try in respect of motor control settings. One minute it's fairly smooth, then it's jerking all over the place, just like a human having a seizure/fit. Turing off DC running - just in case it was getting conflicting signals - makes no difference.

 

So I 'piggybacked' it, treating the TTS like a function only decoder, adding it to the MX600 normally controlling the loco. No problems at all, works fine, so... if a TTS class 24 ever appears I know what to do. At £20 for the MX600 and £36 for the TTS decoder it would still be quite a bit cheaper than the cost of a normal sound decoder. It might also be an answer to anyone with a Bachmann 40, 37 or 20 who wants to fit a TTS decoder and hits the same motor control issues. Just need the space inside the bodies for the two decoders as well as the speakers.............although if lighting is fitted past F0 for simple on/off and uses other funtction keys then conflicts could arise.

 

It's all good fun I keep telling myself.........

 

Izzy

[Robby S]

Sounds a good idea about piggybacking. I'll try it out. All my locos already have decoders fitted already and I was wondering what to do with removed ones.

I've tried several controllers with new TTS decoders. As far as I can tell all controllers seem to initially program correctly but don't run the same. Hornby and NCE powercab run locos correctly even if number has been changed on different system. Roco, Sprog and Lenz and others will only work if loco is one way round, but it won't program; turn loco around and it doesn't respond at all to throttle, but it will program. Hornby should have made sure that they will work on all systems. I've noticed that Hornby don't mention NMRA compatibility in the instruction leaflet at all ( except when describing the 8 pin socket ).

[pheaton]

Have you tried turning Railcom off in the ECoS to see what happens.

Railcom is reported to damage newer TTS decoders by southwest digital, would reccomend you follow TTGs advice!

[Poppycat57]

Hi, I've been having a problem with the newer TTS decoders and spoke with the technical team at Hornby who are aware that the newer decoders were causing problems. They told me they have a solution and are about to release a fix that should resolve issues that have been reported. Basically, they can reprogramme the chip which should resolve the issue people are reporting between the newer and older versions. I suggest give them a call and you might be surprised to find your problem is like the ones being reported.

[PeterMC]

Hi All

Just a further update. I received my Merchant Navy TTS back from the dealer (who had returned it to Hornby about two weeks ago). It had
some parts missing which the dealer said he would put right. Anyway before he did this he asked me to check it was working correctly with
my ECoS controller. This I did and yes! it all works correctly now in both orientations. Well done Hornby!! I then returned it to the dealer for the detail
repairs. I was told this week that the dealer could not complete the repairs as some parts had been lost. The models is therefore back with Hornby
again. ugggh!

With regard the other two TTS locos returned to Hornby with the same issue two months ago, I contacted Hornby yesterday to be told that they
are still working on the Class 31 decoder reprogramming with no mention of a time scale. There was also no mention of the situation regarding my
Virgin 125 TTS and I await a reply regarding this.

As you can imagine my patients is starting to wain somewhat.

I will update this thread when I have more info

[bob hughes60]

I admire your patience and public spirit in telling other people about possible problems.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (replaces 1979 Sale of Goods Act) if within 30 days goods are found to be faulty,unsatisfactory or misdescribed you have a legal right to reject them and obtain a full refund.

If you discover the fault after the initial 30 days but within 6 months the retailer has the option of repairing or replacing the goods.

If this does not work you can then claim a full refund from the retailer.

Class 31 and Virgin TTS no action ? Merchant Navy TTS lost bits = no repair.

Notice retailer not manufacturer.

I know what I would be doing.

Hope this is useful

Edited November 1, 2017 by bob hughes60

[Crosland]

If you discover the fault after the initial 30 days but within 6 months the retailer has the option of repairing or replacing the goods.

 

The decoders issues are a clear cut case of a design/manufacturing fault, i.e., the fault does not lie with the purchaser. In this case the 6 month limit (the limit for proving who is at fault) does not, in practice, apply. You could bring a claim for up to 6 years.

 

Andrew

Edited November 1, 2017 by Crosland

[Phil S]

The decoders issues are a clear cut case of a design/manufacturing fault, i.e., the fault does not lie with the purchaser. In this case the 6 month limit (the limit for proving who is at fault) does not, in practice, apply. You could bring a claim for up to 6 years.

 

Andrew

Phil: And since it is a re-writing / reprogramming / [or manufacturing issue] of smd components - I would rather the ' manufacturer ' /instigator ie Hornby in this case, took the responsibly of coordinating it all rather than individual dealers:   which they now appear to be, as I have been instructed to send back my M/N complete, and the problematical decoders from the others: 10 so far, with 10 others problem free -  (which includes 2 different add-on versions of A1/A3 = one working, the other not.  [in my case it is Roco Multimaus/MCP/Z21 rotational incompatibility]

Edited November 1, 2017 by Phil S

[Robby S]

I had same problems with Class 20 and Class 31 TTS decoders on my Roco Z21. Piggy backing didn't work. Phoned Hornby customer care, returned chips, came back after a week and both are now working fine. According to Hornby it's mainly some, but not all, of the class 31 separate chips as well as some ready fitted locos. Said new batch of decoders for 31, 37, 47, 60, and 67 should all be ok. Well we'll see soon!

[Flowers]

I read with interest all the above and I have several TTS locos and have had no problem until this week with my MN so for others I post this note to share what I put on the ESU website today:

My Loco does not work with ECoS2_update_4-2-2

Today I selected Loco SR MN 4-6-2 35023 Hornby R3382TTS Un-Rebuilt BRe Early Holland-Afrika Line which I had saved in my ESU Ecos50200 Loco list but no response.  It had been a couple of months from when I last used her and she had always ran very well.
I checked my other Hornby TTS locos which were releaed before the above loco and they still ran well. I then saw some web threads so I connected my JMRI and SPROG3 the loco worked very well with no problems.
I then realised that the non functioning problem with the TTS MN loco had occurred after installing ECoS version ‘ECoS2_update_4-2-2’ in Jan 2018 which points to a problem with this version of software. The loco was great with all previous versions March 2017 when I got the Loco.
You could say why use TTS decoders, well I have several Locksound  and I use TTS as something different especially as the locos are great.

[GoingUnderground]

I read with interest all the above and I have several TTS locos and have had no problem until this week with my MN so for others I post this note to share what I put on the ESU website today:

My Loco does not work with ECoS2_update_4-2-2

Today I selected Loco SR MN 4-6-2 35023 Hornby R3382TTS Un-Rebuilt BRe Early Holland-Afrika Line which I had saved in my ESU Ecos50200 Loco list but no response.  It had been a couple of months from when I last used her and she had always ran very well.

I checked my other Hornby TTS locos which were releaed before the above loco and they still ran well. I then saw some web threads so I connected my JMRI and SPROG3 the loco worked very well with no problems.

I then realised that the non functioning problem with the TTS MN loco had occurred after installing ECoS version ‘ECoS2_update_4-2-2’ in Jan 2018 which points to a problem with this version of software. The loco was great with all previous versions March 2017 when I got the Loco.

You could say why use TTS decoders, well I have several Locksound  and I use TTS as something different especially as the locos are great.

And you've now realised that you were trying to run the loco the opposite way round from when it did run for you, just like PeterMC in Post No.1, as that's how I read your reply yesterday on the ECoS Support page of the ESU website, and it now runs on firmware 4.2.2, but only when pointing in one particular direction.

 

I think you need to follow his example, and send your MN's TTS decoder back to Hornby for reprogramming/repair/replacement.

[RAF96]

If the TTS loco was working fine with the previous ECoS firmware version but not the latest version, which I thought was brought in to improve compatability with TTS, whilst at the same time Hornby has updated the TTS decoders firmware by return to works reprogramming then in my opinion there may have been a crossing of purposes here.

 

Hornby has fixed their end and ESU has fixed their end but both ends may now be out of synch again in certain combinations of update, if you can follow my logic. There are likely to be many TTS decoders out there still without the latest update and some ECoS controllers at various revision states. Until everyone is on the same page there are bound to be ongoing problems.

Rob

[GoingUnderground]

If the TTS loco was working fine with the previous ECoS firmware version but not the latest version, which I thought was brought in to improve compatability with TTS, whilst at the same time Hornby has updated the TTS decoders firmware by return to works reprogramming then in my opinion there may have been a crossing of purposes here.

 

Hornby has fixed their end and ESU has fixed their end but both ends may now be out of synch again in certain combinations of update, if you can follow my logic. There are likely to be many TTS decoders out there still without the latest update and some ECoS controllers at various revision states. Until everyone is on the same page there are bound to be ongoing problems.

Rob

Have a look at Post 12 in this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130672-tts-problem/&do=findComment&comment=3054198 as your comment above may be based on incomplete information.