AL6 (later class86) - did they initially run without yellow warning panels?

[Rail-Online]

I have a neg of E3163 newly delivered in 1965 without a yellow warning panel.  Was this usual (especially so late on in the batch) and did they ever run in service like this?

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h44c9950a#h44c9950a

 

Tony

[Gibbo675]

I have a neg of E3163 newly delivered in 1965 without a yellow warning panel.  Was this usual (especially so late on in the batch) and did they ever run in service like this?

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h44c9950a#h44c9950a

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

 

I've been down this very route also, quite a few good shots on this thread;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113910-photos-of-ac-electrics/page-1

 

Some did enter service with out yellow panels,  there were some locos with red buffer beams and others with blue, some appear black but it could be shadow, both with and without yellow panels, as usual its confusing.

 

The shade of blue was not electric blue but and early shade of rail blue, as far as I know but could be wrong, it was airless sprayed and had a matt/eggshell finish rather than the gloss of the later blue which causes confusion especially in black and white photographs.

 

Latterly some had full yellow ends with a white roof some with the crest others with arrows, alternately some had blue roofs with full yellow ends again some with crests others with arrows, then there is the colour of the buffer beam.

 

As I said confusing, drove me crackers

 

Gibbo.

[wombatofludham]

I think some early deliveries ran on driver training and test runs without the yellow bib, but by the time they entered passenger service I think they had all been given a yellow panel. The London Midland seemed to apply yellow bibs very rapidly during 1965, as I've seen photos of locos in early '65 "bib-less" but which by the autumn of 65 had gained the warning panel.

 

 

Most 86s entered squadron passenger service in 1966 so would have had the yellow panel.

[E3109]

I studied this at length a while ago. The first handful of locos from Vulcan Foundry (E3161+) and Doncaster (E3101+) were delivered with no yellow panels, the only Rail Blue locos to do so.

They received yellow panels within a matter of weeks.

It would also appear that these locos were the same ones that received red buffer beams, the vast majority had blue ones.

 

Incidentally E3141-60 were built by VF and from what I can tell, were the later deliveries. Thus 60 built at Newton, and 40 built at Donny.

Edited July 5, 2018 by E3109

[Gibbo675]

I studied this at length a while ago. The first handful of locos from Vulcan Foundry (E3161+) and Doncaster (E3101+) were delivered with no yellow panels, the only Rail Blue locos to do so.

They received yellow panels within a matter of weeks.

It would also appear that these locos were the same ones that received red buffer beams, the vast majority had blue ones.

 

Incidentally E3141-60 were built by VF and from what I can tell, were the later deliveries. Thus 60 built at Newton, and 40 built at Donny.

Useful info there, are you able to confirm if it is the airless sprayed matt finish that only appears to be a different shade to the gloss finish rail blue while actually being the same?

[E3109]

Hi Gibbo

 

I can't confirm how the paint was applied (wasn't born then!) but I can confirm that the shade was Rail Blue.

In 2015 there was a serious proposal by FL (my employer) to restore an 86/6 to original livery, I was involved in this and took as many paint samples as possible from as many of the 16 we have, as I could.

In every case, the oldest coat of gloss was Rail Blue, and certainly not Electric Blue, as usually (and erroneously) stated.

 

Incidentally, we have the former E3102, E3103 and E3104 in the fleet.

Not only does this satisfy my number disorder (he he!) but they all still had traces of the red buffer beams beneath the current paint.

As expected, most/ all of the others I inspected had no trace of red in the buffer beam area, and were blue from new.

 

Hope that helps. I do have the details noted somewhere, probably in an old email while this resto was being proposed.

I got to most of the locos, a dozen or so.

 

Shame it didn't happen really.

[E3109]

I have a neg of E3163 newly delivered in 1965 without a yellow warning panel. Was this usual (especially so late on in the batch) and did they ever run in service like this?

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h44c9950a#h44c9950a

 

Tony

Hi Tony

As I mentioned above, E3163 was one of the earliest locos, they weren't built in strict numerical order (apart from being in order within the three batches, presumably) and were constructed by EE and BR simultaneously. Hope that helps.

Edited July 5, 2018 by E3109

[Gibbo675]

Hi Tony

As I mentioned above, E3163 was one of the earliest locos, they weren't built in strict numerical order (apart from being in order within the three batches, presumably) and were constructed by EE and BR simultaneously. Hope that helps.

Hi Tony,

 

That is great and has tied up some loose ends, I did know that the running number allocated and build order did not match up. As for the paint finish I know that a lot of DMU's were originally painted BR blue using an airless spray system that left a matt finish but was discontinued as the finish was difficult to clean. Other blue paint shade/finish oddities were a batch of class 25's that were shopped at Brush around the mid 1960's that had small warning panels and some even had the totem crest, these locos have the same look in both colour and black and white photos both individually and when next to other blue stock.

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Gibbo

 

I can't confirm how the paint was applied (wasn't born then!) but I can confirm that the shade was Rail Blue.

In 2015 there was a serious proposal by FL (my employer) to restore an 86/6 to original livery, I was involved in this and took as many paint samples as possible from as many of the 16 we have, as I could.

In every case, the oldest coat of gloss was Rail Blue, and certainly not Electric Blue, as usually (and erroneously) stated.

 

Incidentally, we have the former E3102, E3103 and E3104 in the fleet.

Not only does this satisfy my number disorder (he he!) but they all still had traces of the red buffer beams beneath the current paint.

As expected, most/ all of the others I inspected had no trace of red in the buffer beam area, and were blue from new.

 

Hope that helps. I do have the details noted somewhere, probably in an old email while this resto was being proposed.

I got to most of the locos, a dozen or so.

 

Shame it didn't happen really.

Hi There,

 

I found this on Derby Sulzers about the livery carried by some class 25's that were shopped at Brush in 1966/7 where they were given a non standard blue, small warning panels and the early crest instead of the arrows. The date, the style of livery and the unusual shade of blue all seems to be of a similar mystery to the early class 86's and painting policy at that time.

There is a photo of D5218 about three quarters down the page.

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/bluelivery.html

 

Gibbo.

[Rugd1022]

E3165 down at the DED at Rugby in 1965...