Help with chassis & brake gear arrangement on LNER van

[Captain Kernow]

As one of the batch of box vans I'm building for 'Callow Lane' at the moment,is a Parkside Dundas LNER 12t fruit van (PC62). I've not had much experience of assembling the LNER chassis arrangement, and was wondering in particular where the 'fourth' V hanger should go, given that the instructions explicitly tell you not to fit it. Photos bear out the fact that one solebar only has the one V hanger, whereas the other side has two, so what happens underneath, opposite the third V hanger? Presumably there is a fourth, but set back inside the solebars somewhere?

 

Also, what does the brake linkage look like underneath, please?

 

I'm wondering if anyone has any photos of a correctly built example, possibly with additional detail, that they could kindly share, please?

 

Many thanks.

[Adam]

It's more simple than that. There are only three 'vees', two on one side, joined by a linkage and a single cross-shaft to the non-lever end of this linkage. You can just about see this in this photo:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/h2d373b30#h2d373b30 - updated link.

 

The lever and the tumbler sort of balance the very short shaft either side of the vee. Does that make sense?

 

Adam

 

EDIT: Here's one I prepared earlier. See:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/78/entry-1858-whitemetal-lner-open/

[craigwelsh]

Might as well put this on both sites..

 

See Tatlow LNER Wagons 1 for a good drawing though I got something similar with my Bradwell kits.

 

My build was illustrated starting at:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9444&start=318

and went onto the next page, I can try to take a new picture but its all black now..

 

I don't think a 4th Vee was needed as the moment of the joining shaft was right up against it, nothing in the middle of the chassis or anything to turn.

 

Incidentally, one of the pictures I have of a 9ft wooden underframe version of this underframe has the vees the other way around with the diagonals facing outwards.. edit: Just noted this is how Adam has modelled his!

 

My ABS build has gone in the bin and i'll have to start again as I couldn't plug the holes the previous owner had drilled in the end for pipes (though naturally he must have got them on the wrong side and drilled symmetrical holes both sides each end!) and then I managed to melt a corner soldering it with the wrong iron.. Bit of a shame as grinding off all the w-irons and v-hangers etch to get a proper chassis underneath was a nightmare! ah well, might just get some Cambrian ones now and use the ABS as weights.

 

 

 

 

 

Must get this weathered a bit while I wait for some decent vacuum pipes to come onto the market. The vacuum cylinder needs the rubber cover adding on the piston too. The fact its fully sprung should keep it slightly ahead of what looks like a decent representation from Bachmann too!

[Adam]

Very nice Craig. Until I re-read the bottom para' I did wonder what on earth was going on with that piston however. I can't help but think that's making life unnecessarily difficult for very little potential visual benefit, though I know it's accurate of course. Bit of 0.7mm wire next time and maybe a skim of epoxy? You're missing a linkage too

 

Those different shape Vees seem to be a feature confined to wooden underframes regardless of the wheelbase. This is not to say that the 'normal' type didn't occur on wooden underframes too of course. Though entirely accurate, goodness knows what was originally supplied with the kit. The components of this one spent twenty years wired to a display board as an example of whitemetal kit construction (there was a finished wagon as part of the same display, now long dismantled), so most of the original brake components had been pinched for other projects years before I assembled it. Those vees (ABS too) emerged from the scrap box.

 

Adam

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks Craig and Adam for your comments, photos and links. It's a lot clearer now.

 

I notice that your van doesn't have the 'FRUIT' sign on it - is this a different kit from my PC62, or have you very cleverly removed the moulded plastic sign?

[craigwelsh]

Very nice Craig. Until I re-read the bottom para' I did wonder what on earth was going on with that piston however. I can't help but think that's making life unnecessarily difficult for very little potential visual benefit, though I know it's accurate of course. Bit of 0.7mm wire next time and maybe a skim of epoxy? You're missing a linkage too

Yeah it wasn't really intended to be that complex, i'll probably get some heat shrink tube over it. Ironically the vacuum cylinder is correctly hung too on its pivot and does rotate as the piston moves.. The linkage is left off due to an AJ needing to go through there eventually..

 

Those different shape Vees seem to be a feature confined to wooden underframes regardless of the wheelbase.

Adam

Ah ok, I was fitting Morton to my failed current attempt so hadn't studied them too closely. I have seen some symmetrical vee's too somewhere but not sure if it was just in a Bill Bedford kit..

 

I notice that your van doesn't have the 'FRUIT' sign on it - is this a different kit from my PC62, or have you very cleverly removed the moulded plastic sign?

Its a PC26 Tim not PC62.

 

I do have a Fruit signed vankit but its not Parkside. Comes in a Orange card topped bag, Nu Cast possibly rather than Ian Kirk. The reason I did the PC26 first was I didn't need to cut off headstocks with 'T' section ironwork on top of them which is always a nightmare. I'll probably leave the headstocks off the chassis I build for later PC06A vans..

[Tim Lewis]

Craig's pics above probably tell you all you need to know (there's some more pictures of the Bradwell underframe on my workbench if interested). These underframes are very highly recommended.

 

By way of further clarification, here's some pictures of a steel open at the Tanfield Railway, which conveniently had its' floor missing, so you can see the detail underneath.

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks for that, Tim - very useful photos, especially as I have a couple of these to do as well!

 

I do have another Parkside LNER van kit, so I think I might just check out a Masokits chassis for that one...

[Tim Lewis]

Thanks for that, Tim - very useful photos, especially as I have a couple of these to do as well!

 

I do have another Parkside LNER van kit, so I think I might just check out a Masokits chassis for that one...

 

Masokits good, Bradwell better... (IMHO) (and cheaper too )

[craigwelsh]

Masokits good, Bradwell better... (IMHO) (and cheaper too )

They have gone up a bit now, think its about £11 for the pair instead of the £8.50 I think it was I originally paid. Its about the only wagon chassis thats pretty much perfect out of the box.

 

I have a couple of the Masokits underframes and th realyaren't in the same league.

[Captain Kernow]

They have gone up a bit now, think its about £11 for the pair instead of the £8.50 I think it was I originally paid. Its about the only wagon chassis thats pretty much perfect out of the box.

 

I have a couple of the Masokits underframes and th realyaren't in the same league.

This is just the kind of useful information that will help me get the right item!

 

I take it that what you chaps are saying, is that the following item (extract from Dave Bradwell page on Scalefour website) is suitable for both the Parkside LNER van kits?:

 

LNER AVB wagon underframes. This etch builds into the distinctive 10ft. wheelbase underframe with two V hangers on one side. Overlays are provided to enable the wooden solebar version to be produced with the addition of brass angle. Axlebox, spring and brake cylinder castings are required. Two underframes per pack.

£10 pair + £1 p&p.

 

To be honest, I hadn't realised that Bradwell did this underframe kit. I'd even forgotten about the Masokits one (although I was perfectly happy with my Masokits SR CCT underframe kit a couple of years ago).

[Adam]

Yes Tim, that's correct, the Bradwell underframe is suitable for both the van kits (and most other 10'wb LNER underframes, funny V hangers permitting). I'm probably due another one or two of his hopper underframes...

 

Adam

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks Adam.

 

I really ought to build that BR brakevan chassis kit of his that I've had for a few years, too...

[craigwelsh]

Thanks Adam.

 

I really ought to build that BR brakevan chassis kit of his that I've had for a few years, too...

Its a superb chassis, its just a pity he never did the spring castings. His instructions are slightly wordy which is the only downside and you do need a couple of reads for the variations.

 

I still need to sort all the handrails on my Bachmann bodies.

[iak]

I think the Bradwell is the better of the two as well - well worth the pennies.

The Masokits does have its uses - BR Fruit Vans with LMS style springing and LNER style brake gear come to mind

[Captain Kernow]

Well, I did manage to cobble together a replacement brake lever for the LNER van last night from Ambis and Bill Bedford bits, and managed to secure it by dint of some very hair-raising soldering right close to plastic bits....

 

Time to do the other side now!

[Captain Kernow]

Well, the construction part of the LNER van is now complete, together with the Vanwide and I've put a couple of photos up on my blog. Thanks again to those who gave advice.