Guest 40-something Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Hi Folks Im being increasingly drawn to the Industrial scene mainly due to the lack of space to do justice to my fleet of 4mm large steam and diesel loco's. Plus I've just ordered a Dapol Sentinal! In the instances when industrial locos ventured onto the main line (I gather this was quite rare) would the loco be required to be accompanied by a brake van,either BR or industry owned? Further if an industy was on both sides of the main line, would an industry owned loco be permitted to regularly cross the mainline? The era Im particulary interested in is the late 60's/early 70's Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 No requirement for them to have a brake van or even a guard [Edit - for a light engine movement] but they would need to be registered to operate on the main line.The registration was usually indicated by an oval plate similar to a builder's plate fixed to the loco. There's a Derek Cross photo in 'Steam in Scotland Vol-1' of NCB No 18 at Ayr, on its way back to Waterside from Prestwick where it had been on loan. For that journey she had two complete crews - one NCB and one BR but this was for a non-routine movement. (Most of the photo caption is taken up relating the tale of how the BR driver managed to water not only the coal in the bunker using Ayr's column, but also his fireman and the NCB crew). I don't know what the arrangements were for very short journeys or just crossing lines, but I would be surprised if there was not some local arrangement permitted where industrial locos could operate within defined limits with just their own crew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 In the instances when industrial locos ventured onto the main line (I gather this was quite rare) would the loco be required to be accompanied by a brake van,either BR or industry owned? Can't say for sure for your era but in the 1950's to early 60's all that was required in the North East was a BR inspector to travel on the footplate. There were numerous examples of inter colliery loco transfers being carried out by main line running without running powers. I assume the locos were inspected by BR first to ensure fitness to travel and then a special notice would have to be raised? Further if an industy was on both sides of the main line, would an industry owned loco be permitted to regularly cross the mainline? The era Im particulary interested in is the late 60's/early 70's In short yes. Although fully signalled here's an example: http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=25085 There’s loads more. Off the top of my head there I seem to remember there was a standard gauge crossing in the Plymouth area (Laira?) that used horses. Hth Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2011 I don't know what the arrangements were for very short journeys or just crossing lines, but I would be surprised if there was not some local arrangement permitted where industrial locos could operate within defined limits with just their own crew. There was a fully signalled flat crossing at Round Oak Steelworks where the Earl of Dudley's railway crossed the OWW main line, adjacent to Round Oak South Signal Box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 No requirement for them to have a brake van or even a guard but they would need to be registered to operate on the main line.The registration was usually indicated by an oval plate similar to a builder's plate fixed to the loco. Like this? Attahed to a Ruston 88DS at the Foxfield Railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 There’s loads more. Off the top of my head there I seem to remember there was a standard gauge crossing in the Plymouth area (Laira?) that used horses. The 4'6" gauge Lee Moor Tramway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The 4'6" gauge Lee Moor Tramway. I've seen photo's of horses on the crossing, but were loco's ever used? There are at least two 4'6" gauge saddle tanks (Peckett?), one of which is at the China clay museum in St Austell, and I'm not aware of any other lines of this gauge in the area. Indeed it is known as "Dartmoor Gauge". Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've seen photo's of horses on the crossing, but were loco's ever used? There are at least two 4'6" gauge saddle tanks (Peckett?), one of which is at the China clay museum in St Austell, and I'm not aware of any other lines of this gauge in the area. Indeed it is known as "Dartmoor Gauge". Ed The railway was split by an incline, the lower section (including the famous crossing) was horse worked and the upper locomotive worked. 'The Lee Moor Tramway A Pictorial Record' br Roy E. Taylor (Twelveheads Press) is worth seeking out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 2, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2011 There were a lot of Industrial's on the main line in the Leeds area with locos being sent to and from hudswell's and Hunslets for repairs from the local collieries. I presume that the same happenned in the Manchester area with locos going to and from the big NCB workshops at walkden. Hunslet regualrly tested new locos on the main line and there are photos of a loco built for Peru hauling a test train up the Settle and Carlisle. I know someone who was on the footplate when they got stopped unexpectly at Long Preston on a downgrade and only just stopped in time. There are were also many examples of working into and out of exchange sidings. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Like this? Yup. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I don't know what the arrangements were for very short journeys or just crossing lines, but I would be surprised if there was not some local arrangement permitted where industrial locos could operate within defined limits with just their own crew. This would doubtless be included in the local sectional appendices relating to the working of specific sets of sidings. Quite a routine form of operation and registration plates sometimes specified this kind of detail. Other circumstances where industrial loco's might venture onto the mainline include these machines going to a BR works for tyre turning or other attention on a contract basis. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks for the replies folks I think I can justify two linked industries either side of a mainline with the industrial power having running rights on the mainline to reach each industry! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sludger Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 A regular working from 1970 to 1987 over BR was the Ashington to Lynemouth services. Hauled by class 14 with NCB van on the rear. The locos were registered to run over BR and examined by Fitters from Cambois for tyre wear etc on a regular basis. No requirement for a BR Inspector but the NCB crews had to be passed in the relevant BR Rules and Regs. In the early days of this service there was also a NCB Brake Tender. These were 3 ex LMS Highs half filled with concrete to increase weight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The Ruston shunter at Chard Junction diary in Somerset was main line certified to cross from the dairy sidings (south side of the mainline) to the bay for the branch line to Taunton on the north side of the mainline, but limited to a very small area, within the station limits. I do recall a story of the shunter being sent half a mile down the main line to pull a failed train clear of the single section into the loop, but am not sure whether this is a local legend as I have no proof of it. The Chard Branch closed in the late 60's, and milk by rail ceased in the late 70's/early 80's so it's back in history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle_central Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The Lambton system had extensive running rights on NER/LNER/BR metals such as from Penshaw taking coal trains to the Lambton staithes or South Dock in Sunderland. This was a run of several miles and there are many photos such as those by Ian Carr. I think this was a much more common arrangement in the ex-NER areas than in the rest of the country. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 At Whitehaven the NCB 0-4-0sts used to cross the mainline to the north of Whitehaven Bransty station on a flat rail crossing. The crews were NCB men who underwent eyesight tests. They were also under the control of the Bransty box as the flat rail crossing was directly under the box. Even until the NCB finished operations here in 1984 their Hunslet 0-6-0 diesel hydraulic would push a complete MGR train out from the exchange sidings onto the mainline to save the BR locos having to go to Parton to cross over and run round the set. The NCB loco had air brakes allowing it to be piped up to the MGRs. In Lancashire the output of Gibfield colliery at Howe Bridge travelled over the BR line to Chanters colliery, for washing, this journey used a brake van and Hunslet Austerity locos Gordon and Humphrey have been photographed on this traffic as has one of the old Wigan Coal & Iron Co locos doubleheading with an austerity. I think there are photos are in a book "Atherton Collieries" by Alan Davies. In Yorkshire NCB steam locos used to take coal from Ackton hall colliery sidings across and down the mainline a short way to Syndale Washer. This was done without a brakevan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 In some places the industrial railway was there first and it was the main line which crossed the industrial rather than vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Fantastic repiles folks, keep 'em coming! Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The Nevill's Dock and Railway Company in Llanelli crossed the main-line to Fishguard at two locations; the flat crossing at Old Castle was taken out of use in 1963, whilst the crossing at Llanelly West went a couple of years previously. The line at Old Castle had been part of the Carmarthenshire Tramroad, dating from 1802, some 40 years prior to the Great Western's arrival. The system was never incorporated into the GWR, or later, into BR, remaining independent until it closed following the demise of the industries it served. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friar Tuck Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Not strictly on topic, but there were instances of emergency and temporary "arrangements" Contractors sometimes ran train services until the railway had enough stock on minor lines. A Wantage Tramway loco is rumoured to have rescued the GWR slip coach on the main line once, when it overran the platforms at Wantage Road When the Kings Ferry bridge was once damaged, locos were hired from industries on the island to keep trains running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The Railway Executive registration plates were not always used correctly. At Foxfield we have Wimblebury which was built in 1956 but carries a RE plate dated 1952! Presumably off its predecesor at Cannock Wood Colliery! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foxfield/wimblebury.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon hudson Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 A little off topic I was playing on Youtube the other day and came across a simulator ride on a Lambton tank journey to Sunderland. I was surprised to say I recognised some of the features along the journey.As stated earlier, certainly up until 1967 NCB locos from Philadelphia had running powers to Lambton stathes and also down to Sunderland south dock.I remember a tale how British Railways got the heeby jeebies when the NCB wanted to run trains from Seaham to Sunderland along the coast line apparently they wanted to run their own trains into the docks at Sunderland as Seaham docks were fairly small and at full capacity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A little off topic I was playing on Youtube the other day and came across a simulator ride on a Lambton tank journey to Sunderland. I was surprised to say I recognised some of the features along the journey.As stated earlier, certainly up until 1967 NCB locos from Philadelphia had running powers to Lambton stathes and also down to Sunderland south dock.I remember a tale how British Railways got the heeby jeebies when the NCB wanted to run trains from Seaham to Sunderland along the coast line apparently they wanted to run their own trains into the docks at Sunderland as Seaham docks were fairly small and at full capacity Certainly into the sixties the NCB worked eight or twelve return trips per day from Lambton to Sunderland, with the trains having very tight schedules to work to, and I think only about a twenty-minute turnround at the Sunderland end. 0-6-2 tanks and 0-6-0 tender locos were used. There were also running powers to collieries off the main Lambton system. Some of these involved reversals. If the Seaham trains had actually come off it would have been poetic justice in a way as the coast line from Seaham to Sunderland was built as the Londonderry Railway, and when the NER bought half of the undertaking in about 1899 the other half sired the Seaham Harbour Dock Co (to simplify the history considerably). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Anyone aware of any 4mm etched Railway Exec approval plate for these ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Anyone aware of any 4mm etched Railway Exec approval plate for these ? Bill Bedford used to do some (but no longer...). Narrow Planet will do you some - I know, because I asked them to - but these are first, on commission and second, they are not currently taking orders. I'll see if I can dig mine out and take a presentable picture. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.