A signalling challenge

[rovex]

Thanks SM - informative stuff.

 

I've drawn out the North end of the station - rather than upload another Templot print - as hopefully makes for a more manageable plan to work on when detailing the correct signalling. The first templot plan was attached to the OP. My intention was to make the plan easier to follow - but looking at it I'm not so sure I've achieved that.

 

Also despite my best efforts and doing it on A4- the scanner insists on missing the edges off. (helpful of it).

 

 

I am going to try over the next few weeks - to have a go at the signalling - but only a bit at a time - otherwise I'll probably go mad.

 

Your comments welcome

[The Stationmaster]

Defiinitely much easier to follow than the Templot plan - are you going to Stafford next week?

[rovex]

I'll certainly try, I don't drive , but should be relatively simple by train and at only £11.60 for a return and a brisk walk from the station - should make a good day out. Provided Network Rail and the TOCs don't sabotage the day.

[The Stationmaster]

I'll certainly try, I don't drive , but should be relatively simple by train and at only £11.60 for a return and a brisk walk from the station - should make a good day out. Provided Network Rail and the TOCs don't sabotage the day.

If you can make it we will go through the whole lot step-by-step covering all the signalling and look at the options you have - far better to be able to sit down and talk it through like that if there's a chance to do so.

[Fay Singpoint]

Thanks again Station master.

 

I wonder if the CO was to allow an engine to come through on the up main, in order to set back onto coaches in the platform road?

 

There was no real need for a CO for a move like that but I suspect it was intended as a sort of 'ok for a short move, next signal at danger' sort of thing and never got altered when all of those were culled.

 

Hi,

 

I have found some info on the Siemens installation at Snow Hill which was brought in to use in 1909 (Birmingham North) and 1913 (Birmingham South).

 

The locking is arranged such that (in the photo under discussion) the Up Through Signal is preceded by the signal ahead in tunnel whilst the CO locks the signal ahead in the tunnel. This arrangement is in place due to the severe falling gradient Up to Moor Street.

 

HTH

[The Stationmaster]

Hi,

 

I have found some info on the Siemens installation at Snow Hill which was brought in to use in 1909 (Birmingham North) and 1913 (Birmingham South).

 

The locking is arranged such that (in the photo under discussion) the Up Through Signal is preceded by the signal ahead in tunnel whilst the CO locks the signal ahead in the tunnel. This arrangement is in place due to the severe falling gradient Up to Moor Street.

 

HTH

 

Many thanks for that Emma, very interesting way of doing things - I'd wondered about the tunnel but hadn't thought about the gradient.

[rovex]

Thanks Emma and Mike for your latest posts.

 

Last night and during lunch today I've been pouring over my draft plan, and what other information I have to make a start. - Hopefully this will help me to understand more when I see you at the open day Mike.

 

These are my thoughts so far. And remember its by no means complete.

 

 

So starting at the bottom.

 

Signal A - Bracket signal allowing a train to leave platform 1 either for the down siding (shorter post) or to the Down relief line (taller post)

 

Signal B - Starter for platform 3 - no other option but the down relief line

 

Signal C - this I am not so sure about - originally it was a three post bracket - but as I have simplified the tracklayout i think it now only warrants two. I think it is for trains which have arrived on the up relief, used the scissors crossing to travel to the down relief and then gives them two options the taller post for arrival at platform 3, the shorter for arrival at platform 1.

 

Signal D - starter for platform 4 - has an indicator board which in this case would show the destination as either the down siding or the down relief - via the scissors crossing.

 

Signal E - this controls two lines. The tallest post - deals with the Down mainline - the home signal controlled by the South box, the distant by the North box I'm guessing. The next post allows trains on the through line to pass through the scissors crossing onto platform6.

 

The signals arms below the line, are for the platform line and control trains leaving platform 5, either to (or along) platform 6, or moving to the Down Main line across the scissor crossing.

 

Signal F, again covers two tracks. Now I think the arms above the line are for trains on the down main and allow trains to depart along the down main or indicate that it will moving to the down relief (it could equally have something to do with the old Nortwood Sidings - which I've removed).

 

The signal below the line deals with departures from platform 6 to either down main or relief - and also on the original to the carriage sidings.

 

Signal G - controls the exit from the engine spur - I would have thought that a ground signal would have done here?

 

Signal H - is an interesting one - delaing with both the up and Down mainline (I think it was later replaced by two bracket signals more or less back to back. Looking at the Up signals first (and note the signal is on the wrong side of the tracks) The tall post has a home for the Up main and a distant which I think was controlled by the South box. The next arm is for platform 8 and the lowest with an inidcator is for platforms 9, 10 and 12.

 

Turning now to the Down main side of this signal. This is a standard bracket signal controlling access to the Down main and relief lines (taller and shorter posts), the distants being controlled by the next box down from the North box.

 

Signal I - this is similar in purpose for signal E, and I assume would have had the same signals below the line for the platform 8 line - but as I have no photograph of this I have left it for now.

 

Signal J - the starter for platform 9.

 

Signal K - Of the three posts the tall post deals with platform 12, the two shorter ones with platforms 10 and 9.

 

Finally

 

Signal L is the starter for platform 10.

 

This is nmot intended to be an exhasutive list - i know some are missing and I may have misunderstood the purpose of some. Also no ground signals have been shown - yet.

[rovex]

Having got the thumbs up from Stationmaster (Mike) at the Stafford show, I've spent the weekend butchering some ratio signal kits that I've been stockpiling the last couple of months (well why finish one job when you can have a dozen on the go).

Most of the single home signals have been cut down slightly as these will generally be sited on the platforms. I think they should probably be shorter still as the canopies at Snow Hill where quite extensive and I can foresee sighting difficulties.

 

These are the simple (!) signals for the North End of the station - or at least the start of them anyway - lots more to do, but I thought bulk building might be the way to go. I'm thinking of replacing the ratio plastic signal arms with ones from the Scale Link range and I'd like to try to have them working (nothing like setting the bar high)

 

There is one more bracket signal to build but this one was more complicated and the ratio kit doesn't lend itself to making it. I need some etched supports from somewhere. The other semaphores at this end of the station were generally bracketed off the canopies and so I might build a section of canopy to work this out.

Well anyway this is the progress today looking rather like the backyard at Reading Signal works (or at least how Reading Signal works would look if it had been situated on my mantle piece)

[The Great Bear]

Working signals would be very very impressive, good luck/hope you have a lot of patience - I found doing one bracket arm with one signal arm hard enough!

 

Hope to see more,

 

Jon

[rovex]

Thanks Jon. We'll have to see how I get on with my patience levels as it progresses. My guess is it's going to involve lots of breaks and cups of tea to calm me down.

 

Anyway the signals have spent the week in the signal works (mantleshelf) and yesterday I got to work with the soldering iron and the superglue and have made all the safety railings and attached all the ladders. The railings are made using the wire from the kits intended to operate the signals( so now I'll have to get some more wire - I was wondering about the stuff they sell on ebay for jewellery making. I've used it before for coach handrails and its generally cheaper then the wire specially sold for modellers.

 

The ladders are scalelink - I've purposefully missed of the support struts which run back from the ladders to the post. Ratio supply one - but it would way to thick against etched brass ladders. (my patience was wearing a bit thin by this time.

 

Next step is to spray paint them all white and then get out the humbrol black.

 

I've bought the Scale link signal arms. Two interesting frets that provide an awful of lot or arms. Each arm is generally made from two parts (arm and spectacle plate) which must be glued or soldered together. The frets also include some calling on arms. So I may add these to some of the other signals (I hadn't intended to) but these will be definitely non-working.

[rovex]

Just a few shots now I've been splashing the black and brown paint around. The flash on my camera is very unforgiving - I thought they looked rather better than this until I edited the photos on the computer. Some red paint to addd to the finials but at least they look rather more like signals- I'm going to dirty them up a lot before they go on the layout as most photos I've got show that they didn't say white and bl;ack for very long in the smoky atmosphere of industrial Brum.

 

I've also been soldering up the signal arms - with lots of burnt fingers as a result - I've ordered some 0.7 mm drills to open out the holes in the signals and posts, as I've decided the 0.5 mm drills are too small and 1mm drills too big. So when those arrive I shall try sorting out the moving gubbins. - More photos of that too follow no doubt.

[rovex]

A bit of painting and soldering has been going on over the last day or so. The signal arms are formed from two parts that have to be joined together. In this case I soldered them (rather brave of me, as when it comes to brass I prefer to glue my fingers together - but this time it was burnt fingers instead.

 

I've then soldered little brass spigots to the back of each arm. I'm going to have to drill the holes out that the rods will fit into. I think the only comment I would make abvout these signal arms is that they are very thin - prototypical I'm sure but it does mean they bend very easily - not prototypical I should think.

 

some white primer and then out with the black red and yellow. Still got the backs to paint and the spectacle glass to add before I even attampt fitting them to the posts - well all makes work for the working man to do.

 

 

[rovex]

Apologies for the absence of posts on this thread, but I'd reached the point where I had to start building up the moving parts and I've been putting it off (and off and off).

 

Anyway tonight I had a go at one of the bracket signals and I'll post a photo or two shortly. (lots of cursing as I am sure you can imagine).

 

However I was wondering if someone could recomment a supplier of "cranks". The scalelink etches come with quite a few, but to be honest I think they'll be too flimsy and will bend. The plastic ones in the ratio kits are likely to snap. I've been using some rather heavier duty etched ones that came with some ratio working signal kits I bought ages ago, but I don't think the cranks are available separately and you only get two in a kit.

 

Are the MSE cranks quite thick?

[rovex]

 

 

 

As promised here's a photo of one of the completed signals (well the only one so far). Sorry for the poor quality but my camera isn't up to close ups.

 

I now the spectacle plate should be blue not green but no one's told Scalelink.

 

So I repeat my question of yesterday, anyone know any suppliers of the cranks in a relatively thick gauge brass?

 

Rovex

[rovex]

Having fallen off a ladder at home and broken my left clavicle, modeeling has been somewhat hampered of late ( I really must give up DIY).

 

Anyway as my left arm is fairly immobile at the moment I have the perfect excuse for delaying folding any more fiddly bits of wire for a while. However being off work as well if I spent the whole time watching daytime telly I would probably end up certifiable by the time I'm fit to return to work, so I have been having a go at the signal gantry that stood at the end of platform 5/6 and is nicely captured in this photo (http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1303.htm). Its signal F on the signalling plan above.

 

Construction had to be in brass, as I didn't think plastruct would be up to it. The main support is shown in the photographs below, the sides are brass U strip 3mm wide and 1 mm deep, the cross members are 1mm brass angle.

 

The two side legs were cut and tinned first and then some mounting board was sandwiched between with the horizontals marked on it. These horizontals were then soldered on and the diagonals then added. The whole piece was then turned over and the process repeated on the other side.

 

This is by far the most complicated thing I have ever soldered and I'm quite pleased with it :-)

 

 

next thing soldering up the bracket (both sides)!!!

[emt_911]

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate accident.

 

Bearing in mind that you are limited in what you can do, that signal gantry upright is stunning

 

Duncan

[rovex]

Thanks Duncan for your kind comments.

 

Today's progress is shown in the following photographs. The two sides of the bracket arm have been soldered up. Still to be added is the small bracket which supported the platform starter, and I'll try and do that tomorrow as well as clean things up. I think that will then be most of the soldering done and apart from the guardrails and signal arms the rest of the bits will be raided from ratio kits.

 

Dean

[emt_911]

Dean

 

If that is the quality of soldering when you're slightly restricted, just think of what you'll be able to achieve when fully fit.

 

Duncan

[rovex]

Thanks again Duncan, but its amazing what the camera can hide.

 

Today the fibreglass pen arrived that I ordered off ebay and with the help of this I cleaned up the brasswork, having added the bracket for the platform starter.

 

The whole thing was then given a wash to remove any surplus flux.

 

 

As you can see from the photos the signal dolls have been added (ratio parts) and the lamp and pivot for the home starter (off cut of a ratio part).

 

The platform is from the wills kit.

 

Next job is the handrail to be soldered up and if I have any left the etched brass ladder to add. Also the indicator for the platform starter needs adding (again ratio).

 

Funnily enough all the signals at Snow Hill were electrically operated, whereas I am going to have to build wire mechanisms up to control mine and then pass them down through the platform to below tha baseboard.

 

Dean