Edwin_m Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Admittedly in DMU days, but Birmingham Moor St had a local instruction that trains were to remain on the stop blocks until the platform end signal was showing a proceed aspect. This was to give the signalman the option of putting a second train in and out while the first one was still there. I don't know if this existed when trains were loco worked. Pretty sure this was and probably still is standard practice at platforms, or at least those where call-on routes in are provided. A train can't approach the platform starter until it is cleared or the signalman authorises the driver to do so. For similar reasons, in places like Manchester Piccadilly before push-pull, the loco trapped against the buffers either had to follow the train out closely as far as the platform starter, or if unable to move immediately would have to sit at the stops until signalled out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSlack Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well, the track plan could do with servicing first. It is not good practice to have a turntable on the only exit from the loco sidings; if the turntable is out of order the depot becomes inoperable. Second, there is nothing that attaches to a signalbox that operates or locks a turntable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well, the track plan could do with servicing first. It is not good practice to have a turntable on the only exit from the loco sidings; if the turntable is out of order the depot becomes inoperable. Second, there is nothing that attaches to a signalbox that operates or locks a turntable. There were two at Liverpool Lime Street ... Bolt locks - or turntable bolts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 While I take your point, I can't help how the GWR designed Snow Hill station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 PS. I think the arrangement might be explainable on the basis that the turntable doesn't service a depot (or not what i would call a depot). This facility I think is only for short term storage of engines sent up from Tysley shed and for turning locos, rather then for recoaling/servicing. I think this makes a difference - but I could be wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2011 PS. I think the arrangement might be explainable on the basis that the turntable doesn't service a depot (or not what i would call a depot). This facility I think is only for short term storage of engines sent up from Tysley shed and for turning locos, rather then for recoaling/servicing. I think this makes a difference - but I could be wrong I think you're right - plus the rather awkward fact that there wasn't the space to do much else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2011 PS. I think the arrangement might be explainable on the basis that the turntable doesn't service a depot (or not what i would call a depot). This facility I think is only for short term storage of engines sent up from Tysley shed and for turning locos, rather then for recoaling/servicing. I think this makes a difference - but I could be wrong I frequented the end of Snow Hill platform 6 during the period from 1960 to the end of steam and saw the turntable move once. That was when the station pilot/standby loco was needed for hauling a train and was the wrong way round. I think it largely fell out of use when the DMUs came and these were stabled in Northwood St sidings. The turntable used to have two connections when the station was rebuilt in 1912, but the south one of these disappeared before the colour light signalling was put in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yes the plans I worked from did show a connection to the turntable from the carriage sidings but to fit the layout into the space available I had to drastically prune down the carriage sidings and this link was one that had to go. Thats life Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Is it just me, but I keep on seeing this topic beinig listed in show new content e.g. update today by the OP at 14:16 but when I enter the topic no update is visible? I've noted this several times before with this thread. Not sure if it's a fault with the board or some setting at my end? Sorry for digressing from the interesting subject matter of the thread... Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 Is it just me, but I keep on seeing this topic beinig listed in show new content e.g. update today by the OP at 14:16 but when I enter the topic no update is visible? I've noted this several times before with this thread. Not sure if it's a fault with the board or some setting at my end? Sorry for digressing from the interesting subject matter of the thread... Jon I noticed the same thing, so it wasn't just you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 Perhaps it was bumped? or maybe a posting was made and then deleted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Is it just me, but I keep on seeing this topic beinig listed in show new content e.g. update today by the OP at 14:16 but when I enter the topic no update is visible? I've noted this several times before with this thread. Not sure if it's a fault with the board or some setting at my end? Sorry for digressing from the interesting subject matter of the thread... Jon mea culpa - I'm just hoping that someone will take pity on me and give me some ideas as to how to signal this end of the layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2012 mea culpa - I'm just hoping that someone will take pity on me and give me some ideas as to how to signal this end of the layout Worry not - it's in the pile and very near the top (I'm waiting on 'our friends in the north' to make up their minds about a new track layout at the moment, in 1:1 scale). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi guys, this is the trackplan for the South End of the Station - somewhat easier to signal. Along the bottom from left to right Platform 11/12 (up) Platform 7/8 (up) up mainline down mainline platform 5/6 (down) platform1/2 (down) Along the top from left to right. Engine spur the next two tracks join and form the up mainline out of the station. the next track is the down main from London the next track has another point with one track joining the down mainline the other heading to the down sidings. and the last track gives access to the down sidings. All the top end of the plan is in a tunnel and so any signals will be out of sight. The platforms were very long and allowed two full length trains to stand in each and thus the platforms had two numbers (today I suppose we've have said platform 1A. 1B etc. From what I can discern from the info I have signal 1, has a home starter signal and below it a shorter signal arm which controlled access to the carriage siding/fish siding and engine spur, on my model only the engine spur has survived. Signal 2 has a home starter and below that another shorter arm, which I guess controlled access to the engine spur as well. Signal 3 was on the footbridge and I am assuming contolled the mainline through the station and presumably held trains on the central through track before allowing access to the tunnel and onwards towards London. 4 and 5 are two sets of double ground signals and presumably allowed shunting movements on the down mainline X - represents a bracket signal - the only photographs I can find show this as acolour light signal on a bracket - I can find no photos showing whether this signal was ever a semaphore and I am puzzled as to what it was for. The question mark is as I have no photographic evidence as to what was here, I have documentary evidence to suggest it was another double ground signal. Any suggestions or comments greatly welcomed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 In case it helps members to interpret my last post, I attach a better plan with the tracks identified on the plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2012 Basically very simple and you're more or less there your no.s 1&2 would have a short arm bracketed off the main post to read to the engine siding, it would have a two arm disc to read to those two lines. Just an ordinary straight post stop signal for the Up Main Through Line. Double discs coming back off the two Down lines - my only question mark relates to teh apparently tw-way line at the bottom on the Down side which really heeds an ordinary stop signal fixed at danger (to act as a stop point for train movements) and then adouble disc at the foot of it. There would be a Limit of Shunt in the tunnel on the Down line - but off scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks Stationmaster. When you refer to the two way line at the bottom on the down side, do you mean the line into platform 1/2 or the downside engine spur? Please ignore the triangles marked on the plan, Templot put those there not me. This was where I got the information for platform 12 - http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1770.htm which as you can see shows the little arm below the main starter and this shows the rear of the platform 7/8 home- again showing the smaller signal. http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1744.htm I understand what you are saying about the bracketed disc though. This one shows the Up mainline though signal. http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1284.htm and this one the mystery bracket - well a mystery to me - I don't know if it dates from the installation of colour light signalling or not? http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1243.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 That last link doesn't want to work - so I'll try again http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1243.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 and this one the mystery bracket - well a mystery to me - I don't know if it dates from the installation of colour light signalling or not? That last link doesn't want to work - so I'll try again http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1243.htm Hi, It dates from the re-signalling scheme commissioned in September 1960. Snow Hill was the first of the Western Region "Integra" Panels. It was also the first to close when they shut the station... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks Fay - since I'm set in 1950 - I'll stop worrying about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks Stationmaster. When you refer to the two way line at the bottom on the down side, do you mean the line into platform 1/2 or the downside engine spur? Please ignore the triangles marked on the plan, Templot put those there not me. This was where I got the information for platform 12 - http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1770.htm which as you can see shows the little arm below the main starter and this shows the rear of the platform 7/8 home- again showing the smaller signal. http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1744.htm I understand what you are saying about the bracketed disc though. This one shows the Up mainline though signal. http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1284.htm and this one the mystery bracket - well a mystery to me - I don't know if it dates from the installation of colour light signalling or not? http://www.warwicksh.../gwrbsh1243.htm Possibly used as an unusual arrangement due to space constraints - the normal arrangement would have been for a small arm to be bracketed off. The CO on the Through Line is an interesting one especially as by then the practice of using a Calling On arm in those circumstances had been abolished (it was actually abolished a long time before then) and I wonder if it was something to do with the difficulty of altering the locking, or just not wanting to? The reason I say that is that I can't see any need for a Calling On move there as it would be onto something standing in the tunnel - however there had been instances where Calling On arms had been used for other reasons - in effect to work as 'Warning' arms in most cases and I wouldn't be surprised if that was what was done at this end of Snow Hill; somewhere I've got a fairly complete list of all such signals and it will be interesting to see if that one is on it. By the 2-Way line I mean Platform 1/2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks again Station master. I wonder if the CO was to allow an engine to come through on the up main, in order to set back onto coaches in the platform road? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks again Station master. I wonder if the CO was to allow an engine to come through on the up main, in order to set back onto coaches in the platform road? There was no real need for a CO for a move like that but I suspect it was intended as a sort of 'ok for a short move, next signal at danger' sort of thing and never got altered when all of those were culled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 This may seem like a stupid question - but as Snow Hill had two boxes each serving opposite ends of the station, then they must have been some handover between the two as a train passed through the station. So for example a train coming in from London would be accepted by the South box from the next box down the line and then would offer it to the North Box (presumably if it was going to fill the whole platform or was going to stop in the North boxes part of the platform. Alternatively if it stopped in the South boxes part of the platform it had to be offered to the North box who then offered it to the next box down the line as it made its way to Wolverhampton. How did this work out in signalling terms - thinking of Home, starter etc. Photos show two sets of signals backeted off the canopies half way along the main through lines in the middle of the station, with arms controlling both the mainlines though the station and the platform lines (7/8 and 5/6). Where these part of that handover? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2012 This may seem like a stupid question - but as Snow Hill had two boxes each serving opposite ends of the station, then they must have been some handover between the two as a train passed through the station. So for example a train coming in from London would be accepted by the South box from the next box down the line and then would offer it to the North Box (presumably if it was going to fill the whole platform or was going to stop in the North boxes part of the platform. Alternatively if it stopped in the South boxes part of the platform it had to be offered to the North box who then offered it to the next box down the line as it made its way to Wolverhampton. How did this work out in signalling terms - thinking of Home, starter etc. Photos show two sets of signals backeted off the canopies half way along the main through lines in the middle of the station, with arms controlling both the mainlines though the station and the platform lines (7/8 and 5/6). Where these part of that handover? Have a look at my new thread on Newton Abbot - the basic principle is exactly the same although I don't describe the block working beyond mentioning what is where in terms of the section and Station Limits http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58269-the-stationmaster-looks-at-signals-at-newton-abbot-in-1983/page__fromsearch__1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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